RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

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KevinScottCollier

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RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 10:30 am

Now available from Amazon... "Rudolph Valentino's Strange Afterlife," a look at the original articles behind the paranormal legend of a legendary silent film star. Creepy stuff. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1979991863/re ... +Afterlife" target="_blank" target="_blank
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FrankFay

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 3:35 pm

Gee- and here I wondered what Valentino left in his Afterfile.......I guess that is still sealed.
Eric Stott
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R Michael Pyle

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Nov 24, 2017 8:02 am

FrankFay wrote:Gee- and here I wondered what Valentino left in his Afterfile.......I guess that is still sealed.

Ask Donald about that. He's got connections.

Oh, by the way, I ordered the book. Why not? I've been trying to connect with Rudy since my last life. He borrowed money once and never paid it back. I can still use it. I'm Scottish after-all, and I can always use 30 cents.
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Jim Roots

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Nov 24, 2017 1:35 pm

R Michael Pyle wrote:
FrankFay wrote:Gee- and here I wondered what Valentino left in his Afterfile.......I guess that is still sealed.

Ask Donald about that. He's got connections.

Oh, by the way, I ordered the book. Why not? I've been trying to connect with Rudy since my last life. He borrowed money once and never paid it back. I can still use it. I'm Scottish after-all, and I can always use 30 cents.


I think that's the market price for hagis ... outside Scotland.

Jim
(trying to give it away)
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FrankFay

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Nov 24, 2017 4:57 pm

Jim Roots wrote:
R Michael Pyle wrote:
FrankFay wrote:Gee- and here I wondered what Valentino left in his Afterfile.......I guess that is still sealed.

Ask Donald about that. He's got connections.

Oh, by the way, I ordered the book. Why not? I've been trying to connect with Rudy since my last life. He borrowed money once and never paid it back. I can still use it. I'm Scottish after-all, and I can always use 30 cents.


I think that's the market price for hagis ... outside Scotland.

Jim
(trying to give it away)


I've had Hagis - at least the sort permitted in the US - & it was decent, if you like meat loaf with a touch of liver.
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Nosferatu

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Nov 24, 2017 6:36 pm

I recall when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle gave assistance of a medium to Houdini about his mother. There was mention that she was with Christ. Houdini mentioned she was Jewish. Then it was mentioned that she converted after death.
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Tracy

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 12:02 pm

I ordered the book, which seems quite slim at 60 pages. The Amazon "look inside" feature shows that it seems to be mostly reprinting of vintage articles. Also I saw that on the cover it lists Natacha Rambova as being his widow. They were divorced at the time of his death, so that is a glaring error.
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Jim Roots

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 1:00 pm

Tracy wrote:I ordered the book, which seems quite slim at 60 pages. The Amazon "look inside" feature shows that it seems to be mostly reprinting of vintage articles. Also I saw that on the cover it lists Natacha Rambova as being his widow. They were divorced at the time of his death, so that is a glaring error.


Please read my, um, "review" of this guy's product in the thread he started for his Lon Chaney book a month ago. I'm pretty sure you'll agree with what I say there.

Jim
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 1:11 pm

Tracy wrote:I ordered the book, which seems quite slim at 60 pages. The Amazon "look inside" feature shows that it seems to be mostly reprinting of vintage articles. Also I saw that on the cover it lists Natacha Rambova as being his widow. They were divorced at the time of his death, so that is a glaring error.


Even I as a Valentino completist when it comes to books, well, avoiding this one.
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Tracy

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 2:10 pm

Jim Roots wrote:Please read my, um, "review" of this guy's product in the thread he started for his Lon Chaney book a month ago. I'm pretty sure you'll agree with what I say there.
Jim


I found and read your "review" and based on your experience with the authors books, I have just cancelled my Amazon order for this Valentino book. Thanks!!
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 5:48 am

And he hasn't even come back to comment - or do a spell correct in the title
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 7:45 am

Technology has made such publications easy. And I believe in freedom of speech.

But, MAN!

If you're going to do this kind of thing (and remember: almost instant paperbacks have existed for decades), can you at least take time to dot "i's" and cross "t's"?
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Thad Komorowski

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 1:06 pm

His animation "books" are equally bad.
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 5:13 am

Without making this look like a pile-on, I'd like to propose something for consideration.

Maybe it's time for board moderators to ponder establishing a few basic rules or guidelines for promoting projects, just so the good folks here won't get blind-sided by an opportunist. For instance, folks who self-publish via POD or use a small press publisher should be held to the same legal standards for sourcing and attributing information as authors producing well researched books for established publishing houses. Page counts are useful information to prospective buyers, attributed sources are essential and permissions should be cleared whenever necessary.

This site is a very open and supportive community providing an unfettered opportunity for PD restorationists, writers and entrepreneurs to market their creative talents to an enthusiastic audience. Most of these labors of love are clearly done to professional standards and deserving of our encouragement. This is something worth nourishing.

The problem is that a platform that provides such freedom for promotion of works that interest silent film fans can also draw opportunists who are merely trying to make a quick buck at the expense of other talented individuals who've done the work and research.

We've had many very fine entrepreneurial efforts in book, magazine and restored film releases promoted on this site and we're all excited to see them succeed and do whatever we can to support the creator's of those works. That's why it's so demoralizing to see any less scrupulously researched works being offered in an exploitive manner.

Well, I've pretty much said my piece on this. Nitrateville is just too important to the silent community for it's members to be taken advantage of by anyone offering less than professional works of questionable merit. We should be celebrating those with serious journalistic and film aspirations. Hopefully, this will serve as food for thought. And my sincerest apology to anyone who feels that I'm overstating the issue.
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FrankFay

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 6:10 am

To throw in my two cents, I'd rather buy something from a writer who participates in discussions than from someone who pretty much only drops in to plug a book. Right or wrong I've developed a feeling of contempt toward Mr Collier, and his afterfile.
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 6:36 am

FrankFay wrote:To throw in my two cents, I'd rather buy something from a writer who participates in discussions than from someone who pretty much only drops in to plug a book. Right or wrong I've developed a feeling of contempt toward Mr Collier, and his afterfile.


You and me both.

I'll bet Collier doesn't even own a lifing cabinet.

Jim
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 9:55 am

FrankFay wrote:To throw in my two cents, I'd rather buy something from a writer who participates in discussions than from someone who pretty much only drops in to plug a book.


THAT is one of the stinkier habits on the Interwebs.

And considering the fact that it has been pointed out publicly as such many times, I'm always amazed that someone would be so out-of-touch as to chose that tack.

-Craig
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 10:45 am

Some of my fellow Nitratevillains are sounding a bit xenophobic. I see nothing wrong with someone who drops in only to say "By the way, I know I'm not from these parts, but I understand some of you folks are interested in Valentino and I've written a book on him. Ta-ta for now!” That's news, that's potentially interesting, that's fine. Some people don't have time to sit around, engaging in idle chit-chit and holding the skein of wool while saying "That's a darling pattern, Skuld, I simply adore the way you've had his throat ripped out by lemmings."

Neither do I see anything wrong in an honest review of a book -- although I prefer to remain publicly* mute on the one or two stinkers that I've bought as a result of seeing them trumpeted hereabouts -- no needs for me to hurt any feelings unasked, and I suggest that, as my family has learned, you don't ask me my opinion, I may not give it to you, and we'll all go home without being too angry; if the only way to get it out of me is by asking, it's likely not to be good.

Still, given that there was no chance I was going to buy a book entitled Rudolph Valentino's Strange Afterlife (Vuss? His corpse wound up as a mummy in a traveling carnival, maybe? A crash test dummy for Kaiser-Frazer?), nor even read it, were some one kind enough to give it to me in the mistaken belief that this is the sort of thing you like, isn't it? Why, thank you. I don't know when I'll get around to it, but I'm glad to have it, I've got a table with one leg just that amount shorter than the others, it's all good. Jim Root's review suffices. If you can't say something good about someone.... well, I didn't know we were all Alice Roosevelt Longworths around here.

Bob

* remember that first l in the word, Robert! Spellchecker won't catch that sort of typo!
Last edited by boblipton on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
The matter is complicated, and I shall proceed to complicate it still more.

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 10:53 am

It's one thing if you've "written" a book, it's another to plagiarize others' works and pawn it off as your own.
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Hamilton's Grandson

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 11:13 am

My two cents ......................if anyone cares what I have to say in the first place.

Literature is derived from Scholarship (scholarly research) which NEEDS references or a list of sources for each statement in the "book" to avoid plagarism (aka literary theft). If a "book" lacks the source of a statement or fact then it is more of an opinion and does not garner the respect of the reader as the writer's own scholarly research.

If any of you on this blog have ever taken coursework or done post-bachelor's degree studies (i.e. a thesis), you would have experienced the importance and rules of creating literature to avoid this serious offense.

Regards,

Dana
Mark Hamilton (I) is on imdb.com
Joseph Hamilton (I) is on imdb.com
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 11:26 am

missdupont wrote:It's one thing if you've "written" a book, it's another to plagiarize others' works and pawn it off as your own.


Exactly! (I can occasionally be succinct!) :D
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Thad Komorowski

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 11:51 am

What the heck is xenophobic about calling someone's crappy plagiarized books such on the basis that they're crappy and plagiarized?
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 12:02 pm

Thad Komorowski wrote:What the heck is xenophobic about calling someone's crappy plagiarized books such on the basis that they're crappy and plagiarized?


Nothing. However, having said that, why go on about it? Should a regular here, turn out a crappy plagiarized book, me or you, say, would that make it better?

Bob
The matter is complicated, and I shall proceed to complicate it still more.

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Thad Komorowski

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 12:08 pm

Maybe because the very idea of crappy plagiarized books—and spamming this board with ads for them—is contemptible?
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 12:24 pm

I do not consider one post per book spam.

Mind you, I don’t defend Mr. Collier’s literary efforts. I just think dogpiling on the rabbit to be silly.

Bob
The matter is complicated, and I shall proceed to complicate it still more.

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 12:26 pm

I won't speak for Mike, but since I'm a moderator here I will say that Nitrateville probably doesn't want to get into the business of endorsing books (or documentaries). There are plenty of great books, restorations and documentaries that have been written and produced by regular members and people who occasionally post here. I have purchased many of them based on recommendations by Nitratevillains, or because the author's posts here show a great deal of knowledge.

Even if I really cared about Valentino's afterlife and/or afterfile, I certainly won't be buying this book after all of the discussion above. So we already are not promoting it, and are warning others to save their money for something more worthwhile.

Alex Staykov was banned from selling his DVDs and his "Star of Fame for Marceline Day" fundraiser here because of complaints that he had duped other members' legitimate restorations. If anyone announcing their book is found to have ripped-off other authors' books, then the same will happen to them.
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 12:48 pm

Collier has made 23 postings here. All but about 4 of them have been announcements for the newest in his assembly line of quote books unquote.

One of the issues is that he doesn't stick around to answer questions about these "books". Miss Dupont asked him a straightforward question about his Chaney book. He declined to respond, so I stepped up and provided my own answer to the gracious lady.

An author can refuse to engage in arguments/fights/pissing-matches over his books in a public forum and I have no problem with that. But when someone asks a legitimate question in search of clarification about the author's method of researching his topics, the author's evasions are a declaration of open season on his work.

P.S. Dana, you will love my assessment of Richard Schickel's book on Harold Lloyd, found in the bibliography of The 100 Greatest Silent Film Comedians: "Beware of biographies bearing no bibliography."

Jim
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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFIL

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 12:53 pm

Bruce, I don’t think that even when Mike interviews someone on Nitrateville Radio and includes links to where interested listeners can purchase goods counts as an Official Nitrateville Endorsement. It does count as Mike doing an interesting interview, and has caused me to make a purchase or three, but I doubt I will be sent to a work camp for failure to self-criticize if my reaction is “eh!”

When I were a lad my parents had a bar in the basement, My father hung a list of rules up. I recall two. One was “Ladies: keep your ()() off the bar” and the other was “Don’t scare the horses.”

I try to obey the latter. I assume the Ladies will heed the former if they think it right.

Bob
The matter is complicated, and I shall proceed to complicate it still more.

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Re: RUDOLPH VALENTINO's STRANGE AFTERFILE

PostMon Dec 04, 2017 2:26 pm

silentfilm wrote:I won't speak for Mike, but since I'm a moderator here I will say that Nitrateville probably doesn't want to get into the business of endorsing books (or documentaries). There are plenty of great books, restorations and documentaries that have been written and produced by regular members and people who occasionally post here. I have purchased many of them based on recommendations by Nitratevillains, or because the author's posts here show a great deal of knowledge.

Even if I really cared about Valentino's afterlife and/or afterfile, I certainly won't be buying this book after all of the discussion above. So we already are not promoting it, and are warning others to save their money for something more worthwhile.

Alex Staykov was banned from selling his DVDs and his "Star of Fame for Marceline Day" fundraiser here because of complaints that he had duped other members' legitimate restorations. If anyone announcing their book is found to have ripped-off other authors' books, then the same will happen to them.


You make some excellent points, Bruce. The vigilance of the community should provide ample notice of which projects fall under the "caveat emptor" designation.

It's also good to know that promoting works for profit that violate copyright or clearly misappropriate the hard work of others crosses a line for Nitrateville's moderators.

I'm curious as to whether similar questionable activity crosses any lines for Amazon's POD services? I suppose the new normal is that it's OK to lift quotes from on-line sources without providing attribution or scholarship if no complaints are registered, but from my perspective it's a clear example of our declining ethical standards. Sorry 'bout the creaky soapbox.

I can't imagine anyone in the community favors placing obstacles in the way of sincere efforts by creative entrepreneurs. We just need to make sure that all of the good projects receive proper acknowledgment and are never overshadowed by the bad ones.

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