Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

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MikeH0714

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Aug 30, 2014 8:53 am

LouieD wrote:So was THE IMMIGRANT a two-reeler or three-reeler??


C'mon Louie, do the math! Chaplin shot 40,000 feet for that film... therefore, THE IMMIGRANT clearly must have been a forty-reeler!

:lol:

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martin arias

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Aug 30, 2014 9:28 am

It appears all of the clowns came off now. I really cannot see the reason why you post in this topic if you don't care at all about it. There're probably more interesting things to do. But have fun, anyway with your trees and punch lines.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Aug 30, 2014 11:12 am

>Had to have been a one reeler 'cuz Atlas Home Movies sold only one reel on 8mm.<

Ah, Atlas...

The Alpha Video of its day!

-Craig
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MikeH0714

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Aug 30, 2014 8:41 pm

wich2 wrote:Ah, Atlas...

The Alpha Video of its day!

-Craig


When David Shepard told me about his days as a teenaged film collector for CHAPLIN'S VINTAGE YEAR, I mentioned that I also began young, with 8mm. He said that he went with 16mm because he thought it much more likely to come across something rare and unusual. I immediately thought, "True, unless you were an ATLAS FILMS customer!"

Michael
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Mike Gebert

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 6:49 am

So I was curious about the footage of Chaplin on a trampoline and zoomed through the documentary to see it.

It is odd that it doesn't quite look like Chaplin. The hair looks too big and shaggy, he looks a little tall. But the provenance makes it hard to imagine how footage of someone else gets into the Chaplin vault. Also it's not from a finished film, because nothing really happens; it absolutely looks like someone testing out the trampoline for its possibilities. How does Chaplin get his hands on somebody else's test footage? It makes no sense.

So 99% it's Chaplin and, as happens to us all in photographs, he just doesn't look like himself that day. But a 1% possibility occurred to me: he got somebody with more experience as a tumbler to test out the trampoline, dressed as the Tramp.

That said, I don't really believe this-- it's not like the tumbler does anything that unusual or expert. I think Chaplin footage from the Chaplin vault is Chaplin. But at least that would explain how Chaplin would own footage of a Chaplin impersonator. If you're going to stand up for a point of view, you have to deal with the most obvious objections first.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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Pasquale Ventura

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 7:37 am

It was a Christmas present from Billy West.
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martin arias

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 10:16 am

I don't think the provenance in any way certifies it is Chaplin on the trampoline. It just certifies it was made at the Chaplin studios. I just think of the Harry Lauder domestic short on which both exchanged their character's outfits. Chaplin filmed lots of stuff, and not always for any specific use. We'll probably never know why this sequence was made. But Chaplin was extremely graceful in his movements, and the guy on the trampoline has no grace at all. His movements are somewhat rigid, and he looks as if he's trying to look like the tramp, not as if he IS the tramp. So, in my opinion, it is most probably a friend or relative of Charlie, or a co-worker at the studio, or something like that, and it was made as a joke, or maybe as Mike suggests for testing the trampoline's resistance for its use somewhere else. And probably no one ever gave a thought about this footage again until now. But I wouldn't dare to speak of 99% or 50% or anything like that.
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topchap

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 12:13 pm

martin arias wrote:I don't think the provenance in any way certifies it is Chaplin on the trampoline. It just certifies it was made at the Chaplin studios.


Let me preface by saying I just got my discs yesterday and haven't had a chance to view the tramp(opine) Tramp footage yet. What I don't get, short of any other identifying evidence, is why the assumption is that it was a CCFC studio product. I know for a fact that there was lots (well some) footage from other sources in the US vaults when Chaplin left for the Limelight premiere in London. Lots of stuff had been confiscated that was viewed to be in copyright/trademark violation, and at least some of that could easily made its way into the CC archives, either via Rohauer or otherwise. I will look soon to see if I can spot any clues, but in the mean time, I don't think any assumptions ought to be made. David S made a statement of fact. Not sure, beyond that fact, what it proves.
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Pasquale Ventura

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 5:36 pm

After Charlie Chaplin's re-entry permit was revoked and not allowed back in the US, his brother Sydney stayed in America for quite a few years securing his studio assets, nitrate negatives, prints, etc.

Lisa Stein's excellent Sydney Chaplin biography explains all of this and more. Finished reading it recently and it's excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/Syd-Chaplin-Biogr ... yd+chaplin
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 6:52 pm

Pasquale Ventura wrote:After Charlie Chaplin's re-entry permit was revoked and not allowed back in the US, his brother Sydney stayed in America for quite a few years securing his studio assets, nitrate negatives, prints, etc.

Lisa Stein's excellent Sydney Chaplin biography explains all of this and more. Finished reading it recently and it's excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/Syd-Chaplin-Biogr ... yd+chaplin" target="_blank


I had a grandfather who was somewhat involved as well. And yes, the Stein bio is great (one niggling photo id error notwithstanding).
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jjbluecaps

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 7:11 pm

Look at the size of his mustache, look at the way he holds his stick, look at the hat securely on his head, that gets to be low, look at the unusual gestures he makes ... This guy is not and never has been Chaplin .

Image
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Aug 31, 2014 7:36 pm

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 12:14 pm

LouieD wrote:So was THE IMMIGRANT a two-reeler or three-reeler??

Image


Now Louie,

You must not poke fun at someone pointing out the same criticism for 47th time of what most others consider a brilliant release of a brilliant production -- the same criticism that had be shut down in another thread due to painful redundancy. Chaplin was a cinematic artist, at a unique comic genius, or just plain GOD... in particular in these subtle Mutuals, where Charlot artistically plants the foot in various rear ends.

This missing comic material is NOT to be laughed at!

DBP
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 12:19 pm

martin arias wrote:It appears all of the clowns came off now. I really cannot see the reason why you post in this topic if you don't care at all about it. There're probably more interesting things to do. But have fun, anyway with your trees and punch lines.


Clearly Mr. Arias has a low opinion of comedy -- which makes one need to ask the obvious question...

DBP
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martin arias

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 12:39 pm

Well, I mostly have a low opinion of you, who cannot accept criticism to a product which you bougth. And it's not the same the Langdon box or the Sennett box, presenting unavailable materials for the first time to the wide audience, than an expensive Mutual set with materials we have bought over and over, and which I, loving Chaplin as I do, would like to watch in their complete form, when footage is available. The fact that made me repeat the argument over and over, was your deafness to every opinion which doesn't match your absolute and uncriticising likely corporative reverence to every product. As for that, if the set ten years ago was so perfect as everyone thought back then when crudely mocking Doug Sulpy for stating its faults, I don't know why you're buying this new one.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 12:44 pm

I don't know why you're buying this new one.

Because Blu-ray.
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Mike Gebert

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 12:46 pm

I do not want to have to close another Chaplin thread but when this one turns to insults it is obvious that it is no longer about Chaplin, his films, or anything but arguing qua arguing.

Rein it in, be civil, or I'm shutting it down. Again.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 1:02 pm

My interest in the Little Tramp-oliner is fading fast, it's one clip in a documentary, but for comparison...

Chaplins who don't look like Chaplin

Image
Richard Barthelplin

Image
Jon Stewplin

Image
Gary Merrplin

Image
Charles Boyplin
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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martin arias

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 1:32 pm

MIke, you seem ready to close things you do not agree with. I don't think your opinion is the only one valid here. Or your interest the only one valid. In any case, I just exposed a few things I think. The mocking didn't start with me, it started with you, Louie, and some other guys who simply seem to have fun in mocking other people. In any case, I do not think for beeing moderator your word is the final word with respect to the arguments. The fact that you think the trampoline guy is Chaplin doesn't automatically mean it's him. The fact you and other people do not care about the completeness of the Mutual set doesn't mean it is not important or that no one cares. And stating that 99 per cent of the people think something doesn't automatically make it a fact.
Anyway, I won't post anything else on this topic because with your personal support you and other people have made this topic childlish, a series of silly jokes which certainly do not discuss film stuff, which is what I specifically did from the start, whether you agree with me or not. But you and some others here are showing no respect at all, and as you do not agree with my statement, then you do not care at all.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 1:55 pm

What do you want? The whole world to acknowledge the injustice that the extra footage of The Immigrant is not in this version? The simple fact is, very few others seem to care as much you do even if you're right. There are 11 other films and countless other discussions to be had on this subject. Nevertheless, your case has been allowed to be made here at a length of thousands of words-- which of course is characterized as you not being allowed to have your say-- and that is not enough. You personally insult people, as did Doug Sulpy, which is against the rules, and the moderators have not banned either of you (we terminated Doug's account at his request) even though you repeatedly go over the line of civility. Telling someone you have a low opinion of them is not discussing film, it's just rudeness. What is the endgame here? We all acknowledge how right you are and how wrong David Shepard is? We burn our blu-ray sets? What would advance this endless, stalemated discussion of a few stray bits of one twenty-minute movie from a 7-hour set toward some form of conclusion?

It's up to you. You can discuss these fragments of one Chaplin film out of 12 in this thread till the cows come home for all I care, I know how not to read what I'm no longer interested in on the internet, but you cannot insult people here. If you have to insult other people for their opinions, you have already lost.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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martin arias

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 4:11 pm

Ok. But neither I nor Doug Sulpy insulted anyone. And our sayings were mocked by a few people here who opposed no contra-argument just because. Where mockery is insulting or not, it's not just up to you to decide. I felt insulted by people who, without expressing any reason to discredit what I said (right or wrong) just discredited my sayings with jokes which were completely off-topic. And far from saying anything about that, you just added your own jokes (very funny indeed, but again, I cannot see how they fit in a serious discussion). It looks like it is being for or against here. No greys. Nothing to object. I admire Dave Shepard and others' works, but I do not pray to him. And to say I have a low opinion of some people who have been mocking my posts just because is no more insult than taking that I must have a low sense of humor, which is what I was answering to.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostMon Sep 01, 2014 6:53 pm

So I cite an example of an insult and your explanation of how it's not an insult is to repeat it verbatim.

If a moderator says it violates the standard of behavior around here, guess what-- it does. And it isn't going to get any better with repetition.

Please review this post before posting again. I am locking this thread for the night because, jeez, time to have a life.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostTue Sep 02, 2014 9:24 pm

Has anyone compared the DVD's to the Blu-ray can't remember where I read it but I think someone said there were differences? That is differences other than the resolution.

Anyhow a great set that looks like it was result of many years worth of hard effort. Overall my only wish it that the framerate was faster. That is not an insult to this fine effort, only my opinion. Which I hope is allowed on this forum.
Last edited by moglia on Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Sep 06, 2014 9:04 am

Last night, I got to watch the Flicker Alley-version of THE PAWNSHOP, and it was a revelation to me. Hilarious though this film has always been to me, with this current musical score combined with the crystal-clear image, it is now not only possibly Chaplin's funniest Mutual; it is one of Chaplin's very funniest films altogether. Magnificent. Thanks so much to Flicker Alley for this set.

mcblue wrote:In the Van Beuren score for The Pawnshop, does anyone know where the music during the alarm clock sequence comes from? It sounds very much like Mozart to me.


I was curious about this myself, it does sound familiar. Beautiful music.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Sep 06, 2014 12:25 pm

No one noticed the sound of someone coughing in The Pawnshop score???
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Sep 06, 2014 2:22 pm

Some of them were recorded live. That is a known fact.

I often see silent films where someone coughs, such as here.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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Smari1989

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Sep 06, 2014 3:17 pm

QUOTE:
jjbluecaps wrote:No one noticed the sound of someone coughing in The Pawnshop score???


Yes, I did. Only once, though, at the end of the clock sequence, so it didn't bother me.
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Pasquale Ventura

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSat Sep 06, 2014 5:45 pm

I heard a sparrow chirping outside of our window while watching. Didn't bother me.
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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Sep 07, 2014 9:28 am

Who doesn't want some bro coughing during a silent score recording? Adds to the authenticity.
L. Jeffrey Selznick School of Film Preservation
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Rodney

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Re: Flicker Alley Chaplin Mutuals

PostSun Sep 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Mont Alto recently recorded our scores of a live performance of a Harold Lloyd picture -- once during the rehearsal, and once during the show. The movie is much more entertaining to watch with the live performance score, because the audience is laughing their heads off.
Rodney Sauer
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www.mont-alto.com
"Let the Music do the Talking!"
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