Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

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WaverBoy

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Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Jun 15, 2016 6:44 pm

I thought this film was lost until Jeffrey K (Gagman66) set me straight on that score. It's even complete. Anyone know of any restoration/video release plans for this baby?

Title
Naughty But Nice [motion picture]
Director
Webb, Millard
Actor
Moore, Colleen
Dates Issued
1927
11/6/1927
Type of Material
moving image
Forms
motion picture
film reel
Physical Description
7 reels; 6,520 ft.
Notes
Director: Millard Webb
Star: Colleen Moore (Berenice Summers)
Archive: Filmoteca De Catalunya (Barcelona) [Esb]
Copyright claimant: John Mccormick Productions
Registration number: Lp24067
Holdings: Foreign Archive
Studio: First National
Completeness: complete
Record No.: 27136

http://lcweb2.loc.gov:8081/diglib/ihas/loc.mbrs.sfdb.1047/default.html
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Gagman 66

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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Jun 15, 2016 8:01 pm

:o Hey there, thanks much for starting this thread. Not surprisingly since I have brought it up over and over again with little or no comment, zero responses so far. I have tried contacting Hugh Munro Neely. He is always on the go it seems. NAUGHTY BUT NICE is also notable as the first on-screen appearance of the newly christened "Loretta" Young. Previously she had been known as Gretchen Young. Colleen suggested to her the new first name and she ran with it. Another point of interest is Millard Webb, who had previously directed Barrymore's THE SEA BEAST in 1926. :)
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Jun 16, 2016 6:33 am

Waverboy, thank you for bringing this up. Discoveries and restorations are always the most exciting news.

I do have one question. I note the Copyright Claimant is John Mc Cormick Productions. This was a new name to me and I could not find any contemporary entries on the net. Do they still exist? If not, does that make things simpler if a Copyright Claimant ceases to operate, or does it muddy the waters?

Thanks,
Matthew
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Jun 16, 2016 8:02 am

John McCormick was Colleen Moore's husband and worked for First National.
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Gagman 66

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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Jun 16, 2016 1:21 pm

:? Supposedly Warner's technically has the rights to the film. Although nothing is mentioned about that on the LOC Database of any kind. This is not exactly a new discovery. I first heard about it in 2010. An E-mail response from someone at George Eastman House back then, mentioned the film begin found "in Spain last year". So it's been known about to some extent since at least 2009. Every time I say something about NAUGHTY BUT NICE it basically goes nowhere. I'm just trying to get information regarding potential repatriation and restoration. If there is anything we can do at all to speed along the process. I just find it odd that there was so much excitement over SYNTHETIC SIN and WHY BE GOOD? being found and finally restored while another formally lost Colleen Moore film from her most popular years has gone virtually ignored. Was hoping to be surprised as I was with RAMONA a few years back.


Image

Colleen with Director Millard Webb have Diametrically opposed notions and ideas regarding treatment of the sequence. "Cheer up Gal, this Is supposed too be Comedy!" - "Ahhh, Booo-Hoooo-Hoooooo! But I want Moore Pathos!!!" - From NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)
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silentfilm

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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Jun 23, 2016 11:47 am

And the original image from my collection...
Image
Millard Webb and Colleen Moore

Image
A Henry Freulich portrait from the film of Colleen Moore and Donald Reed.
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WaverBoy

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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostFri Jun 24, 2016 12:42 am

Man, I'd love to get my hands on a copy of this film. Thanks for the photos, Bruce!
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostFri Jun 24, 2016 8:36 am

I would suspect the stumbling block is the cost of the three R's: repatriation, restoration and rights -- costs which have little or no potential of being made back. Oh yes, I forgot the fourth R: Rnew musical score being composed and recorded.

Ben
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostFri Jun 24, 2016 11:51 am

Here's some good news for Moore fans, we saw a film at Mostly Lost that featured a 12 year old Colleen Moore with some little trolls (classic definition) she could conjure up in an orphanage.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Sep 20, 2017 9:52 am

Tommie Hicks wrote:Here's some good news for Moore fans, we saw a film at Mostly Lost that featured a 12 year old Colleen Moore with some little trolls (classic definition) she could conjure up in an orphanage.


Is that biographically correct, according to her autobiography, I thought she didn't move to Hollywood until later.

About the NBN movie, is there any progress on it? I see that someone had the title uploaded to YouTube twice which was taken down. Is a copy circulating?
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Sep 20, 2017 9:59 am

It's a reference to Little Orphant Annie, and she was 18 or 19 when it was made.

By the way, keep an eye out for the next NitrateVille Radio, all you Colleen Moore fans...
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Sep 20, 2017 10:42 am

The film likely has Spanish titles, if no one has mentioned this yet. There's another cost associated with restoration.

But glad it survives!
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Sep 21, 2017 11:16 am

drednm wrote:The film likely has Spanish titles, if no one has mentioned this yet. There's another cost associated with restoration.

But glad it survives!


Depending on how you want to restore it, it could just mean subtitles on the DVD or the more expensive but probably preferred new intertitles.

Still, I'd bet that Spanish is at least one of the easier languages to translate back.

I did my part by buying Why Be Good, even if I haven't watched it. Sadly there's not much Moore out there on DVD (pun most definitely intended.) I'd like to see more.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Sep 21, 2017 11:38 am

The original titles for Her Wild Oat (1927) survived in a cutting continuity or other document, and they were able to be recreated and inserted back into the film. This is always better than trying to re-translate the foreign-language inter-titles, as they were likely modified for foreign audiences for the original release. Hopefully there is similar documentation on Naughty But Nice's original inter-titles.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 1:22 am

Battra92 wrote:
drednm wrote:The film likely has Spanish titles, if no one has mentioned this yet. There's another cost associated with restoration.

But glad it survives!


Depending on how you want to restore it, it could just mean subtitles on the DVD or the more expensive but probably preferred new intertitles.

Still, I'd bet that Spanish is at least one of the easier languages to translate back.

I did my part by buying Why Be Good, even if I haven't watched it. Sadly there's not much Moore out there on DVD (pun most definitely intended.) I'd like to see more.


If you'd like to see more Moore, you can start by watching the one you have in your hands. I can't believe you haven't watched it yet. It's terrific. My fave film of hers I've seen so far, in fact. Excellent visual and audio quality too. Watch it immediately if not sooner.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 am

And, what's holding up HER WILD OAT? It's ready to go, innit? C'mon, Warner Archive, let's go already!
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 5:53 am

Not for Warner Archive to do. HER WILD OAT was restored by Joe Yranski working with the Motion Picture Academy. So any DVD release would defer to the Academy.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 10:25 am

vitaphone wrote:Not for Warner Archive to do. HER WILD OAT was restored by Joe Yranski working with the Motion Picture Academy. So any DVD release would defer to the Academy.


I am curious how this would work, if it ever does. The Academy has the restored print. But, I thought that Warner's held the rights to the film. If yes, would the Academy turn over the restored print to Warners, who would then issue the DVD? If no rights issues exist with Warners or other entity, does the Academy ever issue DVD's, or would they license the title to a Kino or Flicker to produce?

Thanks,
Matthew
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Oct 04, 2017 7:15 pm

mwalls wrote:
vitaphone wrote:Not for Warner Archive to do. HER WILD OAT was restored by Joe Yranski working with the Motion Picture Academy. So any DVD release would defer to the Academy.


I am curious how this would work, if it ever does. The Academy has the restored print. But, I thought that Warner's held the rights to the film. If yes, would the Academy turn over the restored print to Warners, who would then issue the DVD? If no rights issues exist with Warners or other entity, does the Academy ever issue DVD's, or would they license the title to a Kino or Flicker to produce?

Thanks,
Matthew


Yeah, what he said. :)
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostWed Oct 04, 2017 7:35 pm

The act of restoration does not cancel out the copyright.

But if you have the restoration and the studio wants it, they would make a deal for that material. (Or not, sometimes, there have been cases where a label releases inferior material they have over better material they don't have.)

In reality, odds are you participated in the restoration anyway, so this is all between friends and you'd pay something that would help cover the restorer's costs.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Oct 05, 2017 7:59 am

Thanks.

I assume Warner's holds the rights. They may very well have had a hand, at least financially, in helping to restore Her Wild Oat. I also assume a good working relationship between Warner's and the Academy, such that there would be no impediment to the Academy handing over the restored print. So, it "simply", and I use the term very loosely, comes down to (1) economics, and (2) the pipeline. Economics in terms of what Warner's would receive from DVD sales, and they can get a good sense based upon sales of Why Be Good. Then, for the pipeline, even if it is to be done, it may be way down on the priority list.

Matthew
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostThu Oct 05, 2017 8:55 am

Well, the reason why Why Be Good came out and Her Wild Oat didn't is because the former had an existing soundtrack. So it's not clear that it will be on home video any time soon, on the other hand, I've seen it theatrically twice in Chicago, pretty good for a film that Joe Yranski was nearly the last to see ever, so there are ways to see it, and to make showings happen, that have nothing to do with home video.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 10:10 am

Mike Gebert wrote:Well, the reason why Why Be Good came out and Her Wild Oat didn't is because the former had an existing soundtrack. So it's not clear that it will be on home video any time soon, on the other hand, I've seen it theatrically twice in Chicago, pretty good for a film that Joe Yranski was nearly the last to see ever, so there are ways to see it, and to make showings happen, that have nothing to do with home video.


WAC has released other silents that didn't have existing soundtracks, haven't they? And this one has a score now; get that sucker recorded. I would think HER WILD OAT would sell at least as much as some of the other obscurities they've put out.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 11:26 am

Mike is correct. I am not aware of any silent feature they released that did not have musical accompaniment BEFORE WarnerArchive got it. I know they do not have any budget to add musical accompaniment themselves. If TCM already did it, then WA can release it.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 12:17 pm

vitaphone wrote:Mike is correct. I am not aware of any silent feature they released that did not have musical accompaniment BEFORE WarnerArchive got it. I know they do not have any budget to add musical accompaniment themselves. If TCM already did it, then WA can release it.


Commissioning a new score isn't THAT expensive.....
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 1:23 pm

Good to know it is not THAT expensive. Since Warner Archive has been given zero budget for scoring silents, message me for where you can send the money to score Her Wild Oat. It's not that expensive.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 1:39 pm

vitaphone wrote:Good to know it is not THAT expensive. Since Warner Archive has been given zero budget for scoring silents, message me for where you can send the money to score Her Wild Oat. It's not that expensive.


Well $0 might be a problem, Ron.

If a corporate entity cannot do crowdfunding (I have no idea about this) it seems there must be a creative way to tap into it by contracting with third parties. The interest is out there. The talent is out there. The money is out there.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 3:59 pm

Now I think we're in the realm of, what you or I could do for crowdfunding money wouldn't cover the first meeting to produce an RFP for the contract for the score for a large conglomerate.
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 4:02 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:Now I think we're in the realm of, what you or I could do for crowdfunding money wouldn't cover the first meeting to produce an RFP for the contract for the score for a large conglomerate.



in triplicate....
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Re: Colleen Moore's NAUGHTY BUT NICE (1927)

PostSun Oct 08, 2017 7:55 am

Ok, for Her Wild Oat, the Academy has a restored print and Warner’s holds the copyright. This print can be shown theatrically, which provides a very good opportunity. But, in terms of a home video release, the number one impediment then is lack of a score. Warner’s has no funding to produce a score. And, it appears that the price for a score is well above that which we can accomplish through crowdfunding.

So, the question is who would fund a score for a film which Warner’s owns? TCM was mentioned above. I did not even know that TCM produced scores for silent films. Is that at all likely in this case? Aside from TCM, would any other organization ever fund such a project? Or, in terms of a home video release of Her Wild Oat, are we at a permanent stalemate?

While on the subject, I honestly have no idea how much a score that would be produced for a WB release costs, but I am curious. Does anyone know how much (ballpark) such a score would normally run?

Matthew
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