Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

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Keatonesque

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 4:46 pm

Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(


What silents were those likely to have been slated for restoration by Universal?

The announcement of You Never Know Women is one of the best surprises in recent years. Hopefully, they will get around to a definitive release of It on HD in the near future. My hopes are high for some Pola Negri films too, especially Barbed Wire. Knowing Criterion, since they are just releasing a half dozen Dietrich/von Sternberg talkies, chances are Underworld and The Docks of New York won't happen for some time to come. Consider the last time they released a Chaplin or Lloyd film – the wait can be excruciatingly frustrating.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 5:14 pm

Keatonesque,

:? BARBED WIRE only exists from 16 millimeter sources, although they seem to be much better processed then the elements were on MANHANDLED. Nevertheless, it is a factor. Whereas by contrast, THE SPANISH DANCER, FORBIDDEN PARADISE, and A WOMAN OF THE WORLD have all been recently restored from the best surviving 35 millimeter materials. According to Kevin Brownlow back in 2008 "very good, beautiful quality prints of HOTEL IMPERIAL do exist". I trust that they still do. I personally like Swanson's FINE MANNERS better then ZAZA, MANHADLED, or STAGE STRUCK. Again I don't think any 35 Millimeter elements survive? I hope that I'm mistaken. CAPTAIN BLOOD (1924) is another Paramount Silent (I think), that was recently restored.

Thankfully, I have the Criterion Von Sternberg set with UNDERWORLD, DOCKS, and LAST COMMAND which was only in print for a few years. I was just trying to point out that maybe those films have now lapsed over to Kino? Also I want to know if any of these Paramount Silents are gonna be picked up by TCM? Hasn't happened so far. Even CHILDREN OF DIVORCE which came out from Flicker Alley in December of 2016.
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Keatonesque

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 5:35 pm

Gagman 66 wrote:Keatonesque,

:? BARBED WIRE only exists from 16 millimeter sources, although they seem to be much better processed then the elements were on MANHANDLED. Nevertheless, it is a factor. Whereas by contrast, THE SPANISH DANCER, FORBIDDEN PARADISE, and A WOMAN OF THE WORLD have all been recently restored from the best surviving 35 millimeter materials. According to Kevin Brownlow back in 2008 "very good, beautiful quality prints of HOTEL IMPERIAL do exist". I trust that they still do. I personally like Swanson's FINE MANNERS better then ZAZA, MANHADLED, or STAGE STRUCK. Again I don't think any 35 Millimeter elements survive? I hope that I'm mistaken. CAPTAIN BLOOD (1924) is another Paramount Silent (I think), that was recently restored.

Thankfully, I have the Criterion Von Sternberg set with UNDERWORLD, DOCKS, and LAST COMMAND which was only in print for a few years. I was just trying to point out that maybe those films have now lapsed over to Kino? Also I want to know if any of these Paramount Silents are gonna be picked up by TCM? Hasn't happened so far. Even CHILDREN OF DIVORCE which came out from Flicker Alley in December of 2016.


I know Fine Manners was screened at the Film Forum in NYC two years ago, but don't know what the print used was or what condition it was in. Does anyone know? I'd hope that would be the next Swanson to see the light of day. It might be for the best if KINO did have the rights to Underworld and The Docks of New York since Criterion could take years before bothering with them. But perhaps they would be worth the wait. Criterion usually does beautiful work with silents. At the time that collection was released, Criterion was already releasing Blu-Rays, if I'm not mistaken, so they could've just invested in HD releases of those films rather than just SD, but such is life. We can only hope for those that have already undergone restorations from 35-mm elements will be blessed with releases via KINO or perhaps Flicker Alley in the near future.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Keatonesque wrote:At the time that collection was released, Criterion was already releasing Blu-Rays, if I'm not mistaken, so they could've just invested in HD releases of those films rather than just SD, but such is life.

For the von Sternberg set's release, Criterion had only licensed for SD from Paramount; they stated that they'd have to renegotiate a new license to make a blu-ray version.

LAST COMMAND is not being reissued by Kino. It's the 1955 film of the same title, with no connection to the silent.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 7:22 pm

Danny Burk wrote:
Keatonesque wrote:At the time that collection was released, Criterion was already releasing Blu-Rays, if I'm not mistaken, so they could've just invested in HD releases of those films rather than just SD, but such is life.

For the von Sternberg set's release, Criterion had only licensed for SD from Paramount; they stated that they'd have to renegotiate a new license to make a blu-ray version.

LAST COMMAND is not being reissued by Kino. It's the 1955 film of the same title, with no connection to the silent.


I think that's preferable to have Criterion upgrade all three rather than KINO. Criterion will undoubtedly do fantastic work with further restoration work on Underworld and The Docks of New York. Did you mean renegotiate in order to upgrade them in the future or at the time they were initially negotiating the license for the first release? My understanding was they licensed for SD initially while already having begun releasing BDs. Perhaps the timing was unfortunate. Had they tried some years later, I'm sure it would've been an HD release. In any case, since the KINO deal, one hopes Paramount are more accommodating nowadays and Criterion can upgrade that collection (two of the films in it which I consider to be superior to all the Dietrich–von Sternberg collaborations save for perhaps The Blue Angel) sooner than later.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 7:35 pm

Keatonesque wrote:Did you mean renegotiate in order to upgrade them in the future or at the time they were initially negotiating the license for the first release? My understanding was they licensed for SD initially while already having begun releasing BDs. Perhaps the timing was unfortunate. Had they tried some years later, I'm sure it would've been an HD release.

I think it was that, i.e. poor timing, since negotiations apparently took place before Criterion started doing blu for all their releases. Of course it's possible that said renegotiations for a blu reissue have taken place since then, unknown to any of us, but in any event let's hope that an upgrade does come forth at some point.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostFri May 04, 2018 7:53 pm

Danny Burk wrote:
Keatonesque wrote:Did you mean renegotiate in order to upgrade them in the future or at the time they were initially negotiating the license for the first release? My understanding was they licensed for SD initially while already having begun releasing BDs. Perhaps the timing was unfortunate. Had they tried some years later, I'm sure it would've been an HD release.

I think it was that, i.e. poor timing, since negotiations apparently took place before Criterion started doing blu for all their releases. Of course it's possible that said renegotiations for a blu reissue have taken place since then, unknown to any of us, but in any event let's hope that an upgrade does come forth at some point.


I've no doubt the results will be worth the wait, as they are always consistent with their silents, though their output has really stalled lately. I believe last year had only The Lodger/Downhill and a Vampyr upgrade, while this year has only had The Passion of Joan of Arc upgrade, with over 2 years since the last Chaplin or Lloyd, though I recall seeing someone mention some months ago Suzanne Lloyd stated The Kid Brother would be coming this year and a boxset of Lloyd's shorts would come someday as planned.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostMon May 07, 2018 1:42 pm

Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(


YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN is a William Wellman film, many viewers love Wellman, and the Blu-Ray features commentary from his son. I don't think it's fair to the film or to Kino Lorber to summarily dismiss it. I do know OLD IRONSIDES is coming soon. KL just released four Paramount silents in the last two months plus the Douglas Fairbanks/Allan Dwan double feature, so I'll patiently await OLD IRONSIDES. We've waited since 1987 for a better home video release and I can wait a couple more months.

My hunch is Criterion Collection has been working on getting the three silent Von Sternbergs to Blu Ray but they've clearly been concentrating on the upcoming July Dietrich/Von Sternberg set, which is a massive investment for them. (THE LAST COMMAND that's coming from Kino Lorber is a 1955 film that has no relation to the Von Sternberg silent.) It takes a LOT OF TIME to get these things done. A LOT.

I'm sure KL is licensing other Paramount silents, but they're not going to announce anything until they're ready to announce.

Also, Gagman, keep in mind that FORBIDDEN PARADISE is only 19 months away from entering the public domain. Then even YOU can release it on Blu-Ray if you want!
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostMon May 07, 2018 2:01 pm

Okay, maybe I'm spoiled because I have seen nearly everything Gagman mentioned in theaters.

But I LOVE being surprised by titles like this rather than seeing them checking off what I expect to see.

This Kino series of Paramount films has just been marvelous, and that's why I try to feature them on NitrateVille Radio and review them in Old Movies on HD whenever I can. Buy them to keep them coming, and encourage the titles you want to see, but don't complain.
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostMon May 07, 2018 2:22 pm

precode wrote:
Danny Burk wrote:
precode wrote:I suspect that the 35 I made was junked. When I was fired by Paramount in 1993, they stupidly trashed a lot of the prints I made (including a tinted print of TESS OF THE STORM COUNTRY) just to be spiteful, not considering that those were corporate assets that could have continued to generate income.

This may be another instance of people just assuming the studio had no elements without even bothering to ask. Remember people driving themselves crazy trying to restore OLD DARK HOUSE when the original elements were sitting in the Universal vault all along?

Mike S.

It's a sad thing that this doesn't surprise me. I hope they still have the neg, or it's likely gone in 35mm.


I don't think they would throw the neg away, but it's not likely they're going to do anything with it, at least in the near future. Look how long it took them to put WINGS on DVD!

Mike S.


It's unfortunate the 35mm negative for Manhandled couldn't have been licensed and used for such a release (which seemingly makes no sense considering the deal KINO has with Paramount), especially since Stage Struck looks impeccable in comparison. The question should've been: if not now, when? The prints could've been compared and elements used from both if necessary for the best quality restoration possible. A shame. But as has been said, at least we have something.
Last edited by Keatonesque on Mon May 07, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostMon May 07, 2018 3:02 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, maybe I'm spoiled because I have seen nearly everything Gagman mentioned in theaters.

But I LOVE being surprised by titles like this rather than seeing them checking off what I expect to see.

This Kino series of Paramount films has just been marvelous, and that's why I try to feature them on NitrateVille Radio and review them in Old Movies on HD whenever I can. Buy them to keep them coming, and encourage the titles you want to see, but don't complain.


My only complaint is these releases are coming so fast and furiously I haven't had time to watch them all yet!
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

PostTue May 08, 2018 5:25 am

buskeat wrote:
Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, maybe I'm spoiled because I have seen nearly everything Gagman mentioned in theaters.

But I LOVE being surprised by titles like this rather than seeing them checking off what I expect to see.

This Kino series of Paramount films has just been marvelous, and that's why I try to feature them on NitrateVille Radio and review them in Old Movies on HD whenever I can. Buy them to keep them coming, and encourage the titles you want to see, but don't complain.


My only complaint is these releases are coming so fast and furiously I haven't had time to watch them all yet!


I've lost a bit of weight myself. Unfortunately, it was in my wallet.

Jim
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