Moulin Rouge 1929

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wingate

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Moulin Rouge 1929

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 3:24 pm

Both silent and sound versions are being released by Network in June on DVD and Blu Ray
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dr.giraud

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostMon Apr 03, 2017 12:33 am

wingate wrote:Both silent and sound versions are being released by Network in June on DVD and Blu Ray


details

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=20891
dr. giraud
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SilentsPlease

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostTue Sep 26, 2017 9:28 am

Has anyone seen this Blu-ray and would like to comment? It came out in June and I haven't found any review anywhere.
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R. Cat

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostTue Sep 26, 2017 6:02 pm

SilentsPlease wrote:Has anyone seen this Blu-ray and would like to comment? It came out in June and I haven't found any review anywhere.


I've had this'n for awhile, but haven't gotten around to viewing yet. It's in my "to be watched" queue. When I have a bit more time to catch up with the backlog I'll post impressions.
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pickfair14

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 11:34 am

silents please - check out Amazon UK, it's released there and some have commented
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Rodney

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 1:41 pm

pickfair14 wrote:silents please - check out Amazon UK, it's released there and some have commented


Unfortunately, amazon.co.uk seems to have combined reviews from this version, the 1950s version about Toulouse Lautrec, and the Baz Lehrman version.
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R. Cat

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 3:41 pm

Rodney wrote:
pickfair14 wrote:silents please - check out Amazon UK, it's released there and some have commented


Unfortunately, amazon.co.uk seems to have combined reviews from this version, the 1950s version about Toulouse Lautrec, and the Baz Lehrman version.


Good point, Rodney. This is one of Amazon's biggest failings universally (IMO). If their corporate goal is to provide accurate information to consumers in a timely manner via buyer reviews they need to figure out a better way to separate the various versions, reissues and delivery formats.

BTW, as a side note, I hope to get around to checking out the '29 Moulin Rouge soon, but there has been such a wealth of silent releases on BD of late that I'm a bit behind.
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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostThu Sep 28, 2017 7:06 pm

If I review something (more likely, repurpose what I wrote for here) that has a new edition (such as Beggars of Life), I make sure to say which edition I'm referring to ("the 2017 Kino Lorber release").
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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostFri Sep 29, 2017 5:41 am

R. Cat wrote:BTW, as a side note, I hope to get around to checking out the '29 Moulin Rouge soon, but there has been such a wealth of silent releases on BD of late that I'm a bit behind.


This is a good problem to have.
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tadao

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 5:49 am

I watched this last night. The Blu-ray has only the 1929 version with Movietone-type score full of familiar tunes.

The image is a bit worn and has a slightly dupey look, probably from reprinting when the score was added. I didn't measure the frame but it looked like 1.37 rather than 1.19, framing was good and it didn't look cropped. It's in clean black and white without any tinting/toning. It has good greyscale range and doesn't look blown out or crushed at either end. It's listed as 'restored' but doesn't look like a whole lot's been done to stabilise or clean up the image, though there's nothing that's very distracting. The intertitles have been remade digitally as white text in a period-appropriate looking font (Silentina?) over a pure black background, and fades to black have also been redone digitally, both of which jar a little for me but aren't really an issue. I noticed a couple of instants of text inserts that looked very rough, these may have been patched in from another source. It looked good on my projector and probably on a par with the Movietone version of Sunrise for image quality.

The melodrama aspects of the story are fairly engaging and although unlikely are at the better end of that sort of thing. There are a couple of brilliant kinetic action sequences towards the end. The footage of mixed variety bills at the Moulin Rouge are a real joy. Olga Tschechowa's performance is a standout, she looks fairly matronly in the melodrama scenes but very sexy in her dancing outfits!

Having seen three of Dupont's films now, I'd say enjoyed the film more than Variety but not quite as much as Piccadilly.

I'd certainly recommend the Blu-ray if you can play Region B discs!
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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostWed Oct 04, 2017 10:07 am

tadao wrote:I watched this last night. The Blu-ray has only the 1929 version with Movietone-type score full of familiar tunes.

The image is a bit worn and has a slightly dupey look, probably from reprinting when the score was added. I didn't measure the frame but it looked like 1.37 rather than 1.19, framing was good and it didn't look cropped. It's in clean black and white without any tinting/toning. It has good greyscale range and doesn't look blown out or crushed at either end. It's listed as 'restored' but doesn't look like a whole lot's been done to stabilise or clean up the image, though there's nothing that's very distracting. The intertitles have been remade digitally as white text in a period-appropriate looking font (Silentina?) over a pure black background, and fades to black have also been redone digitally, both of which jar a little for me but aren't really an issue. I noticed a couple of instants of text inserts that looked very rough, these may have been patched in from another source. It looked good on my projector and probably on a par with the Movietone version of Sunrise for image quality.

The melodrama aspects of the story are fairly engaging and although unlikely are at the better end of that sort of thing. There are a couple of brilliant kinetic action sequences towards the end. The footage of mixed variety bills at the Moulin Rouge are a real joy. Olga Tschechowa's performance is a standout, she looks fairly matronly in the melodrama scenes but very sexy in her dancing outfits!

Having seen three of Dupont's films now, I'd say enjoyed the film more than Variety but not quite as much as Piccadilly.

I'd certainly recommend the Blu-ray if you can play Region B discs!


Thanks for the most in-depth comments on this disc that currently exist on the Internet. Network also says there is a PDF file of the film's script that you can access on a PC with a Blu-ray drive. I'm planning to buy Varieté and Moulin Rouge together. Moulin Rouge is at a good price now at Amazon UK, but Varieté is still expensive.
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SilentsPlease

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostWed Oct 04, 2017 10:10 am

Rodney wrote:
pickfair14 wrote:silents please - check out Amazon UK, it's released there and some have commented


Unfortunately, amazon.co.uk seems to have combined reviews from this version, the 1950s version about Toulouse Lautrec, and the Baz Lehrman version.


There are a few that do review the 1928 version, but they are not very well-written. The general quality of Amazon reviews have gone down the toilet in both US and UK the past few years. That was the reason I asked here.
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JumpingFrog

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 2:17 am

tadao wrote:I watched this last night. The Blu-ray has only the 1929 version with Movietone-type score full of familiar tunes.

The image is a bit worn and has a slightly dupey look, probably from reprinting when the score was added. I didn't measure the frame but it looked like 1.37 rather than 1.19, framing was good and it didn't look cropped. It's in clean black and white without any tinting/toning. It has good greyscale range and doesn't look blown out or crushed at either end. It's listed as 'restored' but doesn't look like a whole lot's been done to stabilise or clean up the image, though there's nothing that's very distracting. The intertitles have been remade digitally as white text in a period-appropriate looking font (Silentina?) over a pure black background, and fades to black have also been redone digitally, both of which jar a little for me but aren't really an issue. I noticed a couple of instants of text inserts that looked very rough, these may have been patched in from another source. It looked good on my projector and probably on a par with the Movietone version of Sunrise for image quality.

The melodrama aspects of the story are fairly engaging and although unlikely are at the better end of that sort of thing. There are a couple of brilliant kinetic action sequences towards the end. The footage of mixed variety bills at the Moulin Rouge are a real joy. Olga Tschechowa's performance is a standout, she looks fairly matronly in the melodrama scenes but very sexy in her dancing outfits!

Having seen three of Dupont's films now, I'd say enjoyed the film more than Variety but not quite as much as Piccadilly.

I'd certainly recommend the Blu-ray if you can play Region B discs!


Things are actually a bit more complex than Tadao suggests. This isn't the 85 min synchronised sound version that was originally released in 1929 but a full restoration of the earlier and much longer 1928 silent version (mostly utilising a Dutch print.) However the soundtrack has been constructed by editing and looping portions of the 1929 version's soundtrack to make it run the full 127 mins. This technique has been done surprisingly well and convincingly. The film is really great, well up to the standards of Piccadilly or Variety and the Network version is over 40 mins longer than the previously available versions. I heartily recommend it.

The best review I've found on the internet (other than Tadao's) is this one from Letterboxd.com, but then again I wrote it... :)
https://letterboxd.com/jumpingfrog/film/moulin-rouge-1928/
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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostThu Nov 09, 2017 7:28 am

Without false modesty I'd say that your review is much better informed than my quick jottings, JumpingFrog! Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding of the version used and the work done on it.

The looping was evidently so well done I didn't notice it. Kudos to the restorers. Where did you come across the information? There seems to be very little online. Their efforts must be deserving of a long article! I found the following snippet at the BFI Player website:
The initial 1928 theatrical release was silent (accompanied in cinemas by live music) but the 1929 shortened re-release had a new score by John Reynders, and this has been re-purposed for this longer version. Due to occasional spot effects, the longest uninterrupted piece of ‘clean’ music was only three minutes in duration but there were over forty minutes of picture missing audio so it was a rather arduous task to select cues that were appropriate for the visuals. Overall, 120 music edits were made to fit the audio to the images. The operation sequence at the end of the film is deliberately mute as per the short version soundtrack to convey tension.

https://player.bfi.org.uk/rentals/film/watch-moulin-rouge-1928-online

Thanks for the tip-off on the PDF, SilentsPlease! It's rare that I put a BD on the computer and would have missed it without your mention. The script looks fascinating, it seems to be a shot-by-shot continuity; I haven't closely examined it against the film to see how closely it matches. It's a duplicate several times removed from the original copy and is difficult to read in places, but it's an excellent and welcome inclusion on the disc, would be interesting to learn about its provenance and to study it in detail!
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Big Silent Fan

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostThu Nov 09, 2017 1:52 pm

JumpingFrog wrote: This isn't the 85 min synchronised sound version that was originally released in 1929 but a full restoration of the earlier and much longer 1928 silent version (mostly utilising a Dutch print.) However the soundtrack has been constructed by editing and looping portions of the 1929 version's soundtrack to make it run the full 127 mins. This technique has been done surprisingly well and convincingly. The film is really great, well up to the standards of Piccadilly or Variety and the Network version is over 40 mins longer than the previously available versions. I heartily recommend it.


It's a very well told story. Only this week I watched the shorter 'Grapevine Video' release. I've always believed it had the soundtrack from the original. Now I know it was.
I'm glad they decided to use the original score from this (apparently including recordings actually made at Moulin Rouge) and not ruin the film with a new score, not fitting the picture properly (as was done in the "Piccadilly" restoration). I have the original score and shorter film (actually I have both the European and 'censored' American video), complete with applause sound effects and Oriental Music when Shosho does her Oriental Dance. The original "Piccadilly" film (with recorded sound) provided 'street' sound effects at the beginning and end of the film.

With forty more minutes of original film and a proper score, "Moulin Rouge" will be on my Christmas Wish list.
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JumpingFrog

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Re: Moulin Rouge 1929

PostSat Nov 11, 2017 8:04 am

tadao wrote:Without false modesty I'd say that your review is much better informed than my quick jottings, JumpingFrog! Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding of the version used and the work done on it.

The looping was evidently so well done I didn't notice it. Kudos to the restorers. Where did you come across the information? There seems to be very little online. Their efforts must be deserving of a long article! I found the following snippet at the BFI Player website:
The initial 1928 theatrical release was silent (accompanied in cinemas by live music) but the 1929 shortened re-release had a new score by John Reynders, and this has been re-purposed for this longer version. Due to occasional spot effects, the longest uninterrupted piece of ‘clean’ music was only three minutes in duration but there were over forty minutes of picture missing audio so it was a rather arduous task to select cues that were appropriate for the visuals. Overall, 120 music edits were made to fit the audio to the images. The operation sequence at the end of the film is deliberately mute as per the short version soundtrack to convey tension.

https://player.bfi.org.uk/rentals/film/watch-moulin-rouge-1928-online

Thanks for the tip-off on the PDF, SilentsPlease! It's rare that I put a BD on the computer and would have missed it without your mention. The script looks fascinating, it seems to be a shot-by-shot continuity; I haven't closely examined it against the film to see how closely it matches. It's a duplicate several times removed from the original copy and is difficult to read in places, but it's an excellent and welcome inclusion on the disc, would be interesting to learn about its provenance and to study it in detail!


Thanks! All that I had to go on re the soundtrack is the quote you posted from the BFI website (which is also actually printed on the inside of the Blu-Ray's cover.) I've heard period scores reconstructed more or less in this way for Hal Roach shorts, where music from other Roach shorts have been used, but this is easily the best and most consistently successful example I've come across (although there's not many films where the technique could be used.) According to the inside of the blu rays cover "Audio restoration and editing" was apparently done by Nitin Regandhi. I to would have loved a longer article or featurette that showed just how he did it, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates the immense amount of work that it must have taken.

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