Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

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Donald Binks

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostFri May 18, 2018 10:25 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:
I ask when I could be back to sit in a sofa and enjoy watch TV... TVs itself are garbage today, and digital broadcast too... So I cannot estimate when it will get decency for me be able to look at it.
When ???????????????????


My money's on never.


I heard a rumour that AllDarc went to see a live play at the theatre the other night. He was said to have remarked that it didn't seem real enough and it could have been improved upon with a better process......
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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 2:43 pm

4K is important for theatrical screenings because the screen is huge and some rows are very close to the screen. For homes with normal sized screens and viewing distances, 1080p is fine. By the way, there isn't a lot of difference between 2K and 1080p.

I think the reason Ali has this impressions is because he doesn't have a great TV at home and he is reacting to the poor quality of European cable TV in his area. It's totally different here in Los Angeles.
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All Darc

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 5:25 pm

I could bet with you, with money, and cheat, since I could say I changed idea. :mrgreen:
But I'm honest, and I also respect you a lot, since you didn't banned me from Nitrateville.

OLED, if they could solve the motion-blur and the image retention (burn in effect), and also reduce prices, would be acceptable. But compression it's a huge issue for broadcast and streaming. Even most Blu-Ray editrions have some fails, despite not as coarse as broadcast and streaming.,

I got possible scared about USA broadcast, since I was imagining it was good. I found these captures, from Star Trek Discovery, and if it was made from the USA broadcast, I must say it's also not good at all.

Image
https://www.startrek.com.ar/wp-content/ ... t140-1.png

Image
http://hotactors.info/images/Jayne-Broo ... rook-2.jpg

Image
https://i1.wp.com/discovery.trekcore.co ... nwell1.jpg

Image
https://i0.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-conten ... ical&ssl=1

Unless itt is from Netfix with poor connection, I would say the USA broadcast it's just another huge mess...

For video the term Digital should be replaced by the term Dignalogic (digital+analogic) since digital give a fake ideal of perfection, of no loss (since it's just zeros and ones). But compression technology elevated digital to a analogic levels,level of loss, since it's replacing the original information with a analogue (processed by compression algoritims), and most times a bad analogue, despite still be in the binary realm of 0 and 1.

Mike Gebert wrote:
I ask when I could be back to sit in a sofa and enjoy watch TV... TVs itself are garbage today, and digital broadcast too... So I cannot estimate when it will get decency for me be able to look at it.
When ???????????????????


My money's on never.
Keep thinking...

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All Darc

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 5:43 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Good one...

Maybe new improoved filters for the spotlights, reducing glare side effects. :mrgreen:

In the medical field... Uhnnn... I was reading a thread about Citzen Kane Blu Ray, and while people talked about deep focus, one guy, who had cataract surgery in both eyes, and replaced the crystaline with artificial lenses, told that the combination of lenses he got, different for each eye, gave hin a "Citizen Kane vision", since he would be seeing everyting in focus, at same time.
It it have some tue...

Donald Binks wrote:
Mike Gebert wrote:
I ask when I could be back to sit in a sofa and enjoy watch TV... TVs itself are garbage today, and digital broadcast too... So I cannot estimate when it will get decency for me be able to look at it.
When ???????????????????


My money's on never.


I heard a rumour that AllDarc went to see a live play at the theatre the other night. He was said to have remarked that it didn't seem real enough and it could have been improved upon with a better process......
Last edited by All Darc on Sat May 19, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Keep thinking...

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All Darc

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 5:49 pm

Your remark into a mathematical equation would lead to the same "problem" you spoted about screen size/distance/ and eye view.

I saw all TVs in nearly all stores in my city the last months. None was good. All have bad dynamics, and motion blur.
The 4K TV my relative got have 5 stars reviews mostly. But for me I give 1/2 star.

Do you mind If I make a request ?
It's not a dispute, but I like to talk with high tech people. Would you mind to get a screen capture from the broadcast signal from Los Angeles ?
Maybe the quality standart of Los Angeles it's not the same for the entire USA.

bigshot wrote:4K is important for theatrical screenings because the screen is huge and some rows are very close to the screen. For homes with normal sized screens and viewing distances, 1080p is fine. By the way, there isn't a lot of difference between 2K and 1080p.

I think the reason Ali has this impressions is because he doesn't have a great TV at home and he is reacting to the poor quality of European cable TV in his area. It's totally different here in Los Angeles.
Keep thinking...

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All Darc

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 6:05 pm

Pee-Wee BlurryDay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quo-Oen1wkY

Digital deaging was used to try to bring the young Pee Wee Herman back to a new film. Ok, it's fine for kids, it can disguise them I presusme. But the producers told they give his young face back to what was in his second film, in the 80's. Far from true, since his face got mostly blur effects, and he look like a third thing, not the young, not the old, but a third thing.

The slin TVs and the compression issues, that people today sadly got used, helped this film, since people used with such side effects will not complain about the blury look of his skin, instead of a young skin look.
Keep thinking...

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Mike Gebert

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 10:31 pm

What do you see objectionable in those Star Trek screen captures? No, you cannot see every pore in the actress's face. You know where else you can't?

Image

What you see as a technical flaw instead seems a deliberate, and standard, artistic choice. Otherwise the image seems impeccably sharp—sharp enough to clearly be digital, not film.
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir
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Unclehulot

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSat May 19, 2018 11:50 pm

All Darc wrote:

I saw all TVs in nearly all stores in my city the last months. None was good. All have bad dynamics, and motion blur.
The 4K TV my relative got have 5 stars reviews mostly. But for me I give 1/2 star.


The showroom settings for TVs are ALWAYS dialed up to the max to compete for the attention of your eyes. I wonder how many CRT sets were ruined back in the day by users who never changed settings from those factory preset nightmares. Now it’s not as damaging to the set but still something that needs attention as soon as you get set up at home. How they expect anyone to evaluate a set in a showroom is beyond my comprehension.

Motion blur is also preset. MOST sets have a way to disable this. It’s not always intuitive or easily accessible, but if you do a small amount of research you’ll find out how to do this.
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westegg

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 6:50 am

I heard a rumour that AllDarc went to see a live play at the theatre the other night. He was said to have remarked that it didn't seem real enough and it could have been improved upon with a better process......[/quote][/i]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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mwalls

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 7:25 am

What would be most important to me is to see a projection of a film (digital) that as closely as possible matches what audiences saw on first release. I do not want to see more detail than was originally seen.

I am by no means a technical expert, but from what I have gathered reading different threads, 1080 is the closest approximation. Is that a correct assumption?

Thanks,
Matthew
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All Darc

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 2:04 pm

Mike, go to see a doctor, check your eyes...
Hope you had openned the links to see the full size version of the images. If this is fine to you , https://www.startrek.com.ar/wp-content/ ... t140-1.png you need help.

I can't accept such garbage (Star Trek captures as example) as a digital image in HD. A DVD from a uncompressed source, if perfect mastered, would have as much more texture than some areas in these captures, like fade.

If you accept a lie, like pay for 10 pounds of meat but get only 2, I don't know what else to say.
The Casablanca effect it's a soft focus, artistic, and not a digital artefact bluring things in [certain areas in certain times due motion, due bitrate fighting to keep image detail alive etc... It's a comlete different thing.
And look the wals in the captures... the artefacts.

If this is the USA strandart, I can say it is the same crap garbage, disgusting, as in my country.
It' have a higher percentqage of detail loss than analogic. Analogic in good reception only had very small if any noise, while these digital garbage compression system for streaming and broadcast have more than 50%.

I don't know what revolts me more, the garbage technology, the huge lie, the disgusting quality, or people who insist in say it's fine, despite all proofs I can show.

Mike Gebert wrote:What do you see objectionable in those Star Trek screen captures? No, you cannot see every pore in the actress's face. You know where else you can't?

Image

What you see as a technical flaw instead seems a deliberate, and standard, artistic choice. Otherwise the image seems impeccably sharp—sharp enough to clearly be digital, not film.
Keep thinking...

Image
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Mike Gebert

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 3:55 pm

Look at the shot.

LOOK at the shot and think about the choices made.

Her uniform? Razor sharp. The edge of the upholstery? Razor sharp.

The face in the middle? Blurry.

That is not the technology. That's a choice made by the production, to soften the image of a lead actress. It's the digital version of the silk screen they would put in front of the camera for shots of... Doris Day, mainly.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Let's bring this to an end here.
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir
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All Darc

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 7:20 pm

Mike, any possible anger it's towards the technology fail, and not to you.
That said, let's to the theme :

Compression in bad bitrate deals better with high contrast differences than lower contrast differences, and the silver lines in the few areas darker it's not very sharp. The wall are very artefacted and so the blue portions of all uniforms.

If her face can have some diffusion effect ? Maybe, to make her sweeter, beaty, but it alone do not work as excuse for the miserale quality of the overal image. And I bet during lateral low motion things got even worse.
Anyway this man's lines and wrinkles are also blurred, despite not much as her capture. https://i1.wp.com/discovery.trekcore.co ... nwell1.jpg

No photographer or web design would think such quality it's good to make a print or to make a first page of a website.

Bigshot, if this is the "golden" quality of Los Angeles, and the actual Netfix quality in Los Angeles, I trully reccomend to change the name to Los Diablos.
This is not quality, it's a lame, worse than prime DVDs. Worse than a sat system of 19 years ago before they put a lot of chanels in a small space, but when it had only a few chanels.

I must say that I'm so suprised about people get along with this holocaust of image definition, that I started to think it's a kind of polite revenge, for the times I anoyed people in this forum with this thematic. So I must ask : Are you guys trolling me in revenge, just top piss me off ???
Sorry to ask, but I needed.

I'm sure that reviewers who made critics for Blu-Ray.Com, for example, would never say such quality its fine, and would give a very bad classification for any disc with a encoding looking like it.
Keep thinking...

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 9:29 pm

What in the wide world are you talking about?!!
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Mike Gebert

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Re: Blu-ray: the beginning of the end

PostSun May 20, 2018 9:42 pm

Again, All Darc, no one is forcing you to buy a TV. But no one else is convinced by your conviction that TV is worse than ever. I think there's been enough of this discussion on what is, after all, NOT primarily a technical site. I'm locking this thread and let's not reopen this can of worms.
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir
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