Tweet The full Napoleon to be screened in the US at last.....

I think that's pretty much spot on Mike; I think there's a few added complications with a continental version, not necessarily based on KB's restoration and using a score compiled from, or inspired by, Honegger's; that muddies the water in France, and possibly mainland Europe, as regards rights too. It seems the late Mr Gance may have passed the copyright of the film to more than one person over the years too......that never helps matters; and regarding the shorter edit for US consumption, something in the back of my mind tells me it was initially for the benefit of the operators of Radio City....the score was written to go with that edit, so that was what toured the US subsequently ???
I agree with you, that while FFC has been painted as the bad guy, and perhaps he did hinder the screening of the longer version in the US and the UK until recently, three things should be remembered; as you say, when the venture needed money and clout, thirty years ago, he provided both; that he has obviously relented or we wouldn't be gathering at Oakland next Spring; and thirdly that I believe that he regards the 'Radio City' edit with his late father's score as a memorial to his father. I think we may all lose a little perspective, temporarily, when a film becomes that personal.

It wasn't that Coppola believed that his version was superior, but that he owns copyright to the picture and could with it what he wished. Without Coppola's approval the Brownlow version could never be shown in any form in the United States.

Precisely! He could have given approval and didn't. Brownlow's version had more and newer source elements. Not to allow a the more complete version to be shown demonstrates Coppola's arrogance in essentially claiming Gance's work as his own and denying everyone else the right to see a version with scenes that had been missing until Brownlow rediscovered them. He was not advancing the cause of film preservation but peevishly and pridefully standing in the way of it. Talk about an egomaniac!

that he has obviously relented or we wouldn't be gathering at Oakland next Spring; and thirdly that I believe that he regards the 'Radio City' edit with his late father's score as a memorial to his father. I think we may all lose a little perspective, temporarily, when a film becomes that personal.

Mr. Coppola may once have been a hero of film preservation, but he has fallen far. If one were inclined to be suspicious of his motives, one might suspect he has finally "relented" because he realizes there is no money to be made anymore in a DVD release. Because of his belated benevolence fewer people will be now be able to see the film, or will even know it exists. What a pity. If Criterion comes calling I hope Mr. Coppola will not make unreasonable demands. As Mr. Brownlow said, "We can hope."

I'm going to perversely toss in my own opinion here. I've never fully understood the interest this film generates. It has some striking parts but is the film really a masterpiece? The story of it's making, it's destruction (by it's own maker) and it's rebirth....now THAT is fascinating. Gance himself was a character worthy of interest- very much a French counterpart of Von Stroheim: both had grand concepts but little self discipline.

[Mike Gebert]

Seeing How the West Was Won in actual Cinerama at the New Neon was one of the great moviegoing experiences of my life... but that doesn't make it The Searchers or The Wild Bunch as a movie. I feel somewhat the same way about Napoleon (which I saw with Coppola and orchestra in Kansas City in 1981). Anyone who can see it in the Oakland engagement most definitely should, but it's a movie of spectacular parts rather than a coherent whole. Napoleon is less a character than a god, which is why the childhood parts are the most affecting; but it doesn't come together as a drama in an emotional way, the way any number of other silents I could name do. You go to it for the great setpieces— the snowball fight, the storm in the Assembly, etc.— which are thrilling on the big screen with an orchestra booming behind them.

I believe that Carl Davis's score is a masterpiece too and the chance to see Napoleon with him conducting his score is too much to miss.

It is: it's. Anything else: its.

Seeing How the West Was Won in actual Cinerama at the New Neon was one of the great moviegoing experiences of my life... but that doesn't make it The Searchers or The Wild Bunch as a movie. I feel somewhat the same way about Napoleon (which I saw with Coppola and orchestra in Kansas City in 1981). Anyone who can see it in the Oakland engagement most definitely should, but it's a movie of spectacular parts rather than a coherent whole. Napoleon is less a character than a god, which is why the childhood parts are the most affecting; but it doesn't come together as a drama in an emotional way, the way any number of other silents I could name do. You go to it for the great setpieces— the snowball fight, the storm in the Assembly, etc.— which are thrilling on the big screen with an orchestra booming behind them.

I agree, it's a hagiography, full of portent and patriotic symbolism. From that point of view Gance/Dieudonne's Napoleon is the full brother to any of the film Lincoln's I've seen. Magnificent, but I could never imagine them eating, let alone going to the john. That's not what the film's about. It's about the legend, the face on your coinage, the icon. That said, no-one did iconic national figurehead better than Gance and Dieudonne.
If you're there, Mike, you might find the Davis score works better than the Coppola score; that's certainly the opinion of everyone I've talked to who have heard both.

[Mike Gebert]

It's not the score; as far as I'm concerned, the Davis score might be better (I've heard it and it seems more, well, adroit) but no score can give Napoleon the emotional impact of, say, Seventh Heaven, which, if I had more money than God and wanted to show people what silent films can do, would probably be my choice to do up big with an orchestra. But as you say, that's not what it's about.

Well, Mike, I think you are in for a surprise when you see the film with the Davis score. You will find many scenes have an impact you never otherwise suspected. And it's not just because of his masterful use of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Paisiello, etc. I think the main issue is that Carl Davis understands the underlying emotions in each scene better than his competitors. Many scenes go unnoticed with Coppola while they blossom with Davis. Coppola's music is also extremely repetitive: he repeats a theme constantly until the scene is over. (It's a just a technique to stay in synch.) The battle scenes also gain enormously with Davis. He gives a direction and meaning to the most obscure and complex fight. The Toulon battle is marvellously paced by Beethoven's Egmont. It makes you understand when the battle reaches its climax (He does the same in his masterful score for Intolerance). When Bonaparte arrives in Corsica to see his mother, I would be surprised if you don't feel emotional while Davis gives the scene exactly the right atmosphere and colour. Never underestimate the power of music.

i have a filling that the full 5 hour and 30 minute version (along with the 4 hour version just to make FFC happy) will be on dvd by christmas 2013. if the screening goes will, i think there is no way they can keep this from being on dvd (plus i think there might be a tour of it later on). i base this on metropolis being shown around the country before it was release on dvd (the current most complete version of the movie).

i have a filling that the full 5 hour and 30 minute version (along with the 4 hour version just to make FFC happy) will be on dvd by christmas 2013. if the screening goes will, i think there is no way they can keep this from being on dvd (plus i think there might be a tour of it later on). i base this on metropolis being shown around the country before it was release on dvd (the current most complete version of the movie).

Well, if the film has not yet been digitized (and I do no tknow if it has been) this will throw a baliwick into a DVD as the mastering will be costly.

I'm taking Kevin B at his word this past July, no plans to release on DVD. Of course, we could all be happily surprised, but I won't believe it otherwise until I see an announcement from Photoplay Productions on the subject.

i have a filling that the full 5 hour and 30 minute version (along with the 4 hour version just to make FFC happy) will be on dvd by christmas 2013. if the screening goes will, i think there is no way they can keep this from being on dvd (plus i think there might be a tour of it later on). i base this on metropolis being shown around the country before it was release on dvd (the current most complete version of the movie).

If you insist.

its just a gut filling i have about the whole thing. i hope it will be on dvd someday and would be on tour (for those who cant get to the 4 showings in SF).

call me crazy but i saw when the TCM classic film festival is next year (april 12th to the 15h i think) and is again in LA and Napoleon is just up the road in SF about 2 weeks earlier, maybe there might be a showing at the festival two weeks later.

maybe ted turner might help pay to get it onto dvd (doesn't turner own the MGM library pre 1986 or something).

Much though I hate to rain on your obvious enthusiasm, no one is going to spring the bucks to bring the East Bay Symphony "just down the road" to L.A. to show this film. And if they put together and rehearsed an L.A. orchestra, they'd want to announce it and start promoting it, oh, maybe last summer, like they did for the Oakland screenings. Additional screenings have already been ruled out by those producing the event, and I've seen no evidence that it's going to change.

It is always fun to hope, and I'll be as pleased as anyone if more showings materialize, but if you really want to see this show (and it appears that you do) you really need to go where it's happening.

Carl Davis, on BBC Radio 2 last night indicated that Napoleon would be performed in London at the Royal Festival Hall in 2013.

Those of you with access to iPlayer can listen again and hear the words from the man himself.

He didn't specifically say that there would be a screening ( it was a radio programme about his music), but I am hoping that it will be, a part of the summer silents slot (POTO this year, Ben Hur next year) that shows the photoplay restorations, with Davis conducting his scores. Big news for those of us in the UK.

i think it will take someone with deep pockets (maybe ted turner since he is into that kind of thing with film preservation minus the whole colorization film thing) to get the film onto dvd one day. one can hope.

i think one day both 4 hour version (to make FFC happy) and the 5 hour 30 minute carl davis score version will be on dvd. i think by the 90th anniversary (2017) it will be on dvd (or what ever the next video thing is). it might take someone with deep pockets (maybe ted turner) to get the film on dvd.

i hope the full 5 hour and 30 minute version will be on dvd someday. how for is the place were they will be showing the movie from the protesters in oakland. anyway, i will be going to see mr brownlow talk when he is in dc on nov 25th.

Napoléon will be screened in London at the Royal Festival Hall on November, 30th, 2013. Carl Davis mentions the date in this interesting interview.

i think Napoleon will be shown on the east coast sometime in 2013. i hope i will so i can see it. i know they have not said anything and there are no plans at the time, but i think they will depending on how the 4 showings go in 2012. also sooner or later the full film (what we have right now) will be on dvd.

Ok, so it looks like a DVD release is unlikely in the foreseeable future, but what about TCM showing it at some point? They've shown the 4 hour reconstruction of Greed, so why not this? Anybody with inside knowledge know if this is a possibility? If so, how likely?

Ok, so it looks like a DVD release is unlikely in the foreseeable future, but what about TCM showing it at some point? They've shown the 4 hour reconstruction of Greed, so why not this? Anybody with inside knowledge know if this is a possibility? If so, how likely?

They'd have to record and license that score. I'd say if there's no DVD, it's unlikely there'd be a TCM showing; though it's not impossible (as we saw with The Roaring Rails and Huckleberry Finn, though both were much lower budget scores). If seeing the complete film is important to you, get to Oakland.

i do hope the film would be on the east coast (say radio city in nyc) so people who dont have the money to fly out to oakland can see it. also hope one day the film would be on dvd.

[Mike Gebert]

Robert Harris, who's been as intimately involved with Napoleon as any of the more famous names, sent me a little background on how the Radio City version was cut to meet US union regulations which would have made a more-than-four-hour show cost prohibitive. Far from representing a bastardization of the original film (since there really isn't an "original" Napoleon but a plethora of varying versions), he says that the Radio City/1981 tour version was cut with Abel Gance's approval and input:

As to the cuts themselves, the most important came directly from Abel when we discussed the need to possibly come in at a shorter length. His immediate reaction was "take out Violine." [Violine is a female character who features in a minor romantic subplot.] That was about 12 minutes. Total footage removed was only about 15-18 minutes, with the rest of the time made up by running the film at 24fps, which also allowed us to record the track for non-live screenings. There is no doubt that the film runs better at a slower speed, as will be seen in March. We live within the exigencies of our industry and economic factors.

Understand that this is not to say that if one is performing more of a reconstruction of the original, as will be seen in Oakland, that the footage should not be included. The cut was to solve a very real problem, which does not rear its head in Oakland.

He also agrees that any picture of Francis Coppola as the bad guy is quite mistaken and that as the film had expanded over the three decades since the Radio City/US tour, Coppola had been looking for a way to present a more complete version with Carl Davis' involvement, going back several years before the Oakland showing was announced.

TCM did show "Napoleon" some years back. Maybe 10 or 11 ago.It was some time between 2000 when I got TMC & 2003 when I got a DVD burner. It was on 2 successive weeks on Silent Sunday Nights, & I remember recording it on VHS , but never watched it. I boxed all the VHS when I moved in '06, & haven't seen it yet.

I still have much of the VHS in the basement. Is it worth digging out?
I recorded it as a curiosity. I actually just watched "Greed" weeks ago. I love comedy, but after realizing how much I dispised a viewing of "Intollerance" (I liked BOAN, but "Intollerance"- I just hated it), I have had a hard time with the 'drama marathons'.

So should I try to find the tapes........and if so, why?

Ok, so it looks like a DVD release is unlikely in the foreseeable future, but what about TCM showing it at some point? They've shown the 4 hour reconstruction of Greed, so why not this? Anybody with inside knowledge know if this is a possibility? If so, how likely?

They'd have to record and license that score. I'd say if there's no DVD, it's unlikely there'd be a TCM showing; though it's not impossible (as we saw with The Roaring Rails and Huckleberry Finn, though both were much lower budget scores). If seeing the complete film is important to you, get to Oakland.

Oh, how I wish I could. Unfortunately, my situation is such that that is impossible.

Napoléon will be screened in London at the Royal Festival Hall on November, 30th, 2013. Carl Davis mentions the date in this interesting interview.

Saw it last time it was on here. An exhausting day but well worth it. If this comes off I will definitely be there again.

The day is getting closer! I'm so excited! To finally see Napoleon in all it's glory with a full orchestra! Unfortunately I think this is a once in a lifetime event. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath or getting rid of my laserdisc anytime soon.

Ron

After months of saying it was too expensive, I have knuckled under to the inevitable. I'm flying in from Chicago to see Napoleon on the 24th (considering the 25th, too). Would any of you fine folks care to meet the evening of the 23rd to have a cocktail and swap a few lies? No late night for me. I am seeing a very long film the next day. I can't think of a better way to spend the evening before than by hanging out with a few Nitratevillains. Any takers?