Betty Boop on Blu

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s.w.a.c.

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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSun Sep 01, 2013 12:06 pm

earlytalkie wrote:In the '90s there was a terrific documentary on AMC titled, I think, "Images From The Dream Factory: The Amazing Max Fleischer", or something close to that. It was hosted by Leonard Maltin, and featured full-length versions of "Snow White", "Poor Cinderella", and "Koko's Earth Control", (with original soundtrack). Is this where the YouTube video posted above originated? Many other classic Fleischer cartoons were presented as well. If it could be mastered to a decent quality, it would be a wonderful addition to devotee's Fleischer collections.

I think that special might have aired on A&E, I know I taped it off the air when it premiered, and AMC wasn't one of my broadcast options up here in Canada at that time. I might even still have the tape, packed away in a banana box somewhere. I'm guessing you're probably correct in thinking that is the source of this copy of Koko's Earth Control.

I made my own DVD from my Koko laserdisc, doing a needle drop of old Duke Ellington Band recordings as a homemade soundtrack.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSun Sep 01, 2013 12:39 pm

earlytalkie wrote:In the '90s there was a terrific documentary on AMC titled, I think, "Images From The Dream Factory: The Amazing Max Fleischer", or something close to that. It was hosted by Leonard Maltin, and featured full-length versions of "Snow White", "Poor Cinderella", and "Koko's Earth Control", (with original soundtrack). Is this where the YouTube video posted above originated? Many other classic Fleischer cartoons were presented as well. If it could be mastered to a decent quality, it would be a wonderful addition to devotee's Fleischer collections.


Maltin's A&E special "Cartoon Madness: The Fantastic Max Fleischer Cartoons" aired in 1992. Apparently it was later chopped up, Maltin replaced by Peter Graves and shown as an episode of A&E's "Biography" series. In 1995, AMC had "Betty Boop's 65th Anniversary," hosted by director Richard Fleischer, son of Max. This was when AMC was showing a lot of Fleischer cartoons in excellent 35mm prints, many bearing UCLA Film & TV Archive restoration credits. The cartoon selections weren't identical, but both featured "Poor Cinderella," "Snow White" and "Bimbo's Initiation."
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSat Sep 07, 2013 8:25 pm

Lots of false history in the Richard Fleischer program. His father apparently invented everything, including Cinecolor.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSat Sep 07, 2013 10:34 pm

BTW, I've now watched the early cartoons, and found that my awareness of the stretching diminished to between barely and not at all once I got into them.

re: The Richard Fleischer program. Now I remember noting the inaccuracies when I first watched it, but I saved only the cartoons when it came to copying my Beta tape to DVD-R.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSun Sep 08, 2013 6:01 pm

The Betty Boop bluray is fantastic. As good as these films will ever look. It's a shame that sour grapes had to tarnish the great job that Olive Films did on these.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostMon Sep 09, 2013 8:32 am

What is the status of Max Fleischer films in terms of preservation???

What survied in fine shape, what camera negatives or quality fine grains from it still exists, or what cartoons no longer exist in original form or in original prints???
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostMon Sep 09, 2013 10:42 am

bigshot wrote:The Betty Boop bluray is fantastic. As good as these films will ever look. It's a shame that sour grapes had to tarnish the great job that Olive Films did on these.

I have my caveats about the discs, but I'm quite looking forward to owning them once they're all released (I wish I'd held off on buying their Otto Preminger titles, which were collected later in a box set after I'd bought two out of the three discs). If they don't wind up in a box set all together at a later date, then I'll buy them individually, but apart from that I agree that Olive has done a great job in doing the work to get good looking, un-DVNR'd editions of the cartoons out there. From the screengrabs I've seen, the stretching issue isn't severe enough for me to bent out of shape over, and I understand that a company like Olive probably operates at slim margin considering they have to license the titles they issue, so the lack of extras isn't the end of the world. Folks wanting to learn more can always seek out Leslie Carbarga's book The Fleischer Story.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostMon Sep 09, 2013 1:33 pm

s.w.a.c. wrote:
bigshot wrote:The Betty Boop bluray is fantastic. As good as these films will ever look. It's a shame that sour grapes had to tarnish the great job that Olive Films did on these.

I have my caveats about the discs, but I'm quite looking forward to owning them once they're all released (I wish I'd held off on buying their Otto Preminger titles, which were collected later in a box set after I'd bought two out of the three discs). If they don't wind up in a box set all together at a later date, then I'll buy them individually, but apart from that I agree that Olive has done a great job in doing the work to get good looking, un-DVNR'd editions of the cartoons out there. From the screengrabs I've seen, the stretching issue isn't severe enough for me to bent out of shape over, and I understand that a company like Olive probably operates at slim margin considering they have to license the titles they issue, so the lack of extras isn't the end of the world. Folks wanting to learn more can always seek out Leslie Carbarga's book The Fleischer Story.


I'm happy with the Boop Blu-ray. Good point about Olive's repackaging: I'm glad I held off buying their Paramount noir titles on DVD since they eventually released them in a handy Blu-ray box.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostMon Sep 09, 2013 2:58 pm

dr.giraud wrote:Good point about Olive's repackaging: I'm glad I held off buying their Paramount noir titles on DVD since they eventually released them in a handy Blu-ray box.

I'd already purchased Dark City and Appointment With Danger when they announced the noir box set, so there wasn't much point in repurchasing those titles. I'm guessing there will be another volume coming out at some point with Cry Vengance, Cry Danger, Hell's Half Acre and maybe Force of Evil (or some variation on that lineup), so I've held off buying future titles in Olive's noir film line, as much as I'd like to see them. I hate to get stuck by double-dipping.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Sep 12, 2013 1:29 pm

bigshot wrote:Lots of false history in the Richard Fleischer program. His father apparently invented everything, including Cinecolor.

I don't recall anyone claiming Fleischer invented Cinecolor, only some filters to add richness to the process. And he did have patents on his process for making backgrounds in animation look more realistic. And he did develop the Rotoscope. So what else is false history?
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostFri Sep 13, 2013 11:19 am

Paul Penna wrote:BTW, I've now watched the early cartoons, and found that my awareness of the stretching diminished to between barely and not at all once I got into them.

re: The Richard Fleischer program. Now I remember noting the inaccuracies when I first watched it, but I saved only the cartoons when it came to copying my Beta tape to DVD-R.

Perhaps you can delineate the inaccuracies you saw in that show. I've never heard anyone say previously that there were untruths in the show, so I would welcome being enlightened here.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostFri Sep 13, 2013 11:59 pm

I second the motion on finding no errors in Richard Fleischer's commentary track on the AMC Betty Boop program. In the 1990s, Richard Fleischer seems to have made himself available for commentary work dealing with movies he directed. Such as "The Vikings" and "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea." For the AMC program, I recall him discussing Max Fleischer and the rotoscopic process used to create Betty Boop. Too bad Richard Fleischer didn't comment more on the Fleischer Superman cartoons made for Paramount in the early 1940s. His genial observations on the Fleischer Betty Boop cartoons were the memories of one of the last persons who had first hand knowledge of the Fleischer cartoon works. I get the feeling that Richard Fleischer figured he was getting on in years and wanted to leave a record of his career in Hollywood before he wound up in Woodland Hills.

Years back, I remember tuning in to WNYC-AM by chance and listening to an interview with composer Jerry Goldsmith. In response to a question about the role arranger Alexander Courage had on Goldsmith's movie music work, Goldsmith said he did his own arranging for the most part. He said Courage's role was overstated. Goldsmith checked out a few years after I heard that radio interview.

Fleischer, on the other hand, if I recall correctly, did not have negative comments on anyone. I have that AMC special buried somewhere on a DVD-R I made from my original VHS recording of the program from maybe 16 years ago.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSat Sep 14, 2013 11:06 am

Volume 2 due Sept. 24th:

Betty Boop Vol 2
CURSES!
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostSun Sep 15, 2013 6:18 pm

I think the inaccuracies were in the Biography episode. Richard Fleischer's book elaborates on a couple of the inaccuracies. He had very little contact with the operations at the studio. He was too young and was at boarding school from what I heard. By the way, I'm pretty sure the camera dept head, Johnny Burton held the patent on the setback camera, not Fleischer. Burton was the one who designed and built it.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostMon Sep 30, 2013 9:56 pm

Wow! The second volume is SPECTACULAR. I've seen Dizzy Dishes and Bimbo's Initiation on 35 from UCLA and this bluray looks just as good. AMAZING stuff.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Oct 10, 2013 12:31 pm

DVD Savant reviews Vol. 2

The winner in this Volume 2 is Bimbo's Initiation, hands down -- it's solid surreal weirdness from one end to the other.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Oct 10, 2013 5:56 pm

I bet the Jazz cartoons all turn up on a single disk. But frankly, I'm happy with any prime time Betty. Bimbo's Initiation on my projection system looks wonderful.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostFri Dec 27, 2013 12:28 pm

Volume 3 announced for Apr. 29, 2014.

MINNIE THE MOOCHER (1932)
I’LL BE GLAD WHEN YOU’RE DEAD YOU RASCAL YOU (1932)
MOTHER GOOSE LAND (1933)
THE OLD MAN OF THE MOUNTAIN (1933)
I HEARD (1933)
HA! HA! HA! (1934)
STOP THAT NOISE (1935)
SERVICE WITH A SMILE (1937)
THE NEW DEAL SHOW (1937)
BE UP TO DATE (1938)
OUT OF THE INKWELL (1938)
PUDGY IN THRILLS AND CHILLS (1938)

Let's hope the ratio problem is fixed this time!
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 11:38 am

Thad Komorowski wrote:Volume 3 announced for Apr. 29, 2014.

MINNIE THE MOOCHER (1932)
I’LL BE GLAD WHEN YOU’RE DEAD YOU RASCAL YOU (1932)
MOTHER GOOSE LAND (1933)
THE OLD MAN OF THE MOUNTAIN (1933)
I HEARD (1933)
HA! HA! HA! (1934)
STOP THAT NOISE (1935)
SERVICE WITH A SMILE (1937)
THE NEW DEAL SHOW (1937)
BE UP TO DATE (1938)
OUT OF THE INKWELL (1938)
PUDGY IN THRILLS AND CHILLS (1938)

Let's hope the ratio problem is fixed this time!


Here's hoping MINNIE THE MOOCHER will again have it's original Paramount logo, main title and ending. It was there on its initial VHS release but Republic opted to remove it from the laserdisc release. As far as I know, it's the only B&W Betty Boop where the complete original titles survive.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 7:56 pm

I'm most interested in seeing Ha! Ha! Ha! On the laserdisc, whole faces, feet and hands kept disappearing from DVNR. It was the worst looking film on the set.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostWed Jul 09, 2014 1:00 pm

FWIW, vol-3 is 1.33:1 aspect (4x3). It's cropped top and bottom instead of pillarboxed. I liked it better on volumes 1 and 2, even though I had to manually correct the aspect and add the pillarboxes; I would rather have the whole frame. The most obvious section to watch for the cropping is in "Minnie The Moocher", where Cab Colloway's feet are mostly cut from the bottom of the frame.

EDIT: Upon second reading, this post isn't as clear as I'd like. What I meant to say was that the aspect is correct in that a circle is still a circle and nothing is stretched wide. But they had to crop the top and bottom in order to achieve this. I would have preferred the whole frame even if it was stretched. I can correct that with AviSynth.

BTW, the volumes 1 and 2 were not all stretched. 11 of the 24 cartoons were stretched, 7 were cropped (just like volume 3), and 6 were only mildly stretched, but also cropped. Here is a listing:

Whole frame, but stretched:
"Betty Boop, MD"
"Betty Boop's Bamboo Isle"
"Betty Boop's Birthday Party"
"Betty Boop's Hallowe'en Party"
"Betty Boop's May Party"
"Betty Boop's Trial"
"Betty Boop's Bizzy Bee"
"Betty Boop's Little Pal"
"Dizzy Dishes"
"Morning, Noon And Night"
"The Betty Boop Limited"

Correct aspect ratio, but cropped:
"Betty Boop's Rise To Fame"
"Chess-Nuts"
"Betty Boop's Prize Show"
"Betty Boop's Ups And Downs"
"Bimbo's Initiation"
"Boop-Oop-A-Doop"
"Keep In Style"

Cropped and mildly stretched:
"Betty Boop For President"
"Betty Boop's Life Guard"
"Betty Boop's Penthouse"
"The Foxy Hunter"
"Betty Boop's Big Boss"
"Betty Boop's Museum"

Let's hope "Snow White" is not cropped when it is released. But I fear it will be since there was so much backlash at the incorrect aspect in the previous releases.


Darryl
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostWed Jul 09, 2014 1:03 pm

So, based on the list published earlier in this thread, and the episodes already on volumes 1 - 3, then volume 4 shoud looks like this:

Vol-4
STOPPING THE SHOW – 1932
SNOW WHITE – 1933
PARADE OF THE WOODEN SOLDIERS – 1933
SHE WRONGED HIM RIGHT – 1934
RED HOT MAMA – 1934
POOR CINDERELLA – 1934 (Color Classic) (PD)
THERE’S SOMETHING ABOUT A SOLDIER – 1934
WHEN MY SHIP COMES IN – 1934
ZULA HULA – 1937
RIDING THE RAILS – 1938
SWING SCHOOL – 1938
PUDGY THE WATCHMAN – 1938


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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostFri Jul 11, 2014 1:31 pm

DVD Savant reports that Betty Boop Vol. 4 will arrive on Sept. 30, but no word on what it will contain. Can't find any mention of it at all on Olive Films' website.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostFri Jul 11, 2014 1:38 pm

Ah, here we go, thanks Hi-Def Digest.

Regarded as one of the first and most famous sex symbols on the animated screen; she was a symbol of the Depression era and a reminder of the more carefree days of the Roaring Twenties. Her popularity was drawn larger from adult audiences and the cartoons, while seemingly surreal, contained many sexual and psychological elements. The queen of the animated screen returns to allure and entice audiences all over again in this fantastic volume-four compilation featuring many of her greatest adventures.
Betty Boop: The Essential Collection, Volume 4 includes 13 animated short films available for the first time on DVD and Blu-ray:
Stopping the Show (1932)
Snow White (1933, featuring Cab Calloway)
Parade of the Wooden Soldiers (1934)
She Wronged Him Right (1934)
Red Hot Mamma (1934)
Poor Cinderella (1934, in color)
There’s Something About a Soldier (1934)
When My Ship Comes In (1934)
Zula Hula (1937)
Riding the Rails (1938)
The Swing School (1938)
Pudgy the Watchman (1938)
Sally Swing (1938)

All 13 shorts were produced by Max Fleischer and directed by his brother Dave Fleischer. Featuring the voices of Mae Questel, Bonnie Poe and Margie Hines as Betty Boop. Also featuring guest voices of Cab Calloway, Jack Mercer and Rose Marie with music by Cab Calloway and His Cotton Club Orchestra.


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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostTue Jul 22, 2014 7:06 pm

Regarding Richard Fleischer. I just have a couple of questions. Was it he who made the short cartoon at the start of "KING OF JAZZ" in 1930 "How Paul Whiteman Became Crowned The King Of Jazz"? I read somewhere that this was the very first Technicolor cartoon? Would anyone know if this is correct?

I also wondered if he made the short colour cartoon "THE WIZARD OF OZ" in 1933, as the artistry looks much the same as the Betty Boop style of cartoon? By the way, I don't think the cartoon of "THE WIZARD OF OZ" was in Technicolor; I think it was some other form of colour, like Cinecolor etc?
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostTue Jul 22, 2014 8:13 pm

David Alp wrote:Regarding Richard Fleischer. I just have a couple of questions. Was it he who made the short cartoon at the start of "KING OF JAZZ" in 1930 "How Paul Whiteman Became Crowned The King Of Jazz"? I read somewhere that this was the very first Technicolor cartoon? Would anyone know if this is correct?

I also wondered if he made the short colour cartoon "THE WIZARD OF OZ" in 1933, as the artistry looks much the same as the Betty Boop style of cartoon? By the way, I don't think the cartoon of "THE WIZARD OF OZ" was in Technicolor; I think it was some other form of colour, like Cinecolor etc?



The KING OF JAZZ cartoon was done by Walter Lantz (of Woody Woodpecker fame) and William Nolan whose work was being released by Universal. I think they were doing Oswald the Lucky Rabbit cartoons for the studio at that time.

The WIZARD OF OZ cartoon you mention was done by Ted Eshbaugh and it was originally in full Technicolor and was in fact produced under the auspices of the Technicolor company. However it wasn't released to theaters in full Technicolor because while it was in production, Disney signed his exclusive contract with the company for use of the process in animation. I learned this from Steve Stanchfield's Thunderbean Animation postings. I believe the Oz cartoon will be included in his new release, "Technicolor Dreams and Black & White Nightmares" which is due to be released shortly.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostWed Jul 23, 2014 1:09 pm

ajabrams wrote:

The WIZARD OF OZ cartoon you mention was done by Ted Eshbaugh and it was originally in full Technicolor and was in fact produced under the auspices of the Technicolor company. However it wasn't released to theaters in full Technicolor because while it was in production, Disney signed his exclusive contract with the company for use of the process in animation. I learned this from Steve Stanchfield's Thunderbean Animation postings. I believe the Oz cartoon will be included in his new release, "Technicolor Dreams and Black & White Nightmares" which is due to be released shortly.


Wow that is awesome news! Thanks so much for clearing up 20 years worth of confusion. I never knew that because there has always been a shroud of mystery over the 1933 colour cartoon "THE WIZARD OF OZ". And in some editions they edit out Ted Eshbaugh's name at the beginning of the credits.

When you say it was released to theaters in full Technicolor; was that the 2 strip process, or the 3 strip process? (bearing in mind that "Flowers and Trees" in 1932 was the very first 3-strip Technicolor cartoon.

I have noticed that on the DVD, and on YouTube there only seems to be two colours visible at any given moment, and there is the presence of blue; however that's nothing because they very often changed the colours later on, in the 1980's to exchange green for blue, (such as in "Rhapsody In Blue" from KING OF JAZZ 1930)

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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostWed Jul 23, 2014 4:39 pm

David Alp wrote:
ajabrams wrote:

The WIZARD OF OZ cartoon you mention was done by Ted Eshbaugh and it was originally in full Technicolor and was in fact produced under the auspices of the Technicolor company. However it wasn't released to theaters in full Technicolor because while it was in production, Disney signed his exclusive contract with the company for use of the process in animation. I learned this from Steve Stanchfield's Thunderbean Animation postings. I believe the Oz cartoon will be included in his new release, "Technicolor Dreams and Black & White Nightmares" which is due to be released shortly.


Wow that is awesome news! Thanks so much for clearing up 20 years worth of confusion. I never knew that because there has always been a shroud of mystery over the 1933 colour cartoon "THE WIZARD OF OZ". And in some editions they edit out Ted Eshbaugh's name at the beginning of the credits.

When you say it was released to theaters in full Technicolor; was that the 2 strip process, or the 3 strip process? (bearing in mind that "Flowers and Trees" in 1932 was the very first 3-strip Technicolor cartoon.

I have noticed that on the DVD, and on YouTube there only seems to be two colours visible at any given moment, and there is the presence of blue; however that's nothing because they very often changed the colours later on, in the 1980's to exchange green for blue, (such as in "Rhapsody In Blue" from KING OF JAZZ 1930)



David - The info at this posting should answer most of your questions. The stills alone are worth the visit!!
http://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/es ... ightmares/
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Jul 24, 2014 12:21 am

Wow those stills are unbelievable! I had no idea it was such a beautiful film! I just thought it was 2-strip as it always has looked so washed out! And it says it never got a public release? It was just a test film! I wish they had included a frame grab of the peacock sequence, with its open feathers as that would have looked stunning! I'm just happy and glad that this fully intact version has been found and maybe one day will be on Blu-ray. Thank you so much for the link! Anyone interested in early cartoons should follow the link as they won't believe the colour achieved in this early 1932 cartoon! Yes 1932 it was made! Not 1933 according to the blurb. So this begs the question did it pre-date "Flowers And Trees" in 1932? If so, then history needs re-writing.
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Re: Betty Boop on Blu

PostThu Jul 24, 2014 7:41 am

It's not "maybe one day will be on Blu-ray"...this is Thunderbean, they are still a very active releasing company, and if they say it will come out later this year, it will.
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