Laurel & Hardy restoration.

Post news stories and home video release announcements here.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 5:39 pm

http://americancinematheque.blogspot.com.br/2016/04/laurel-and-hardy-restored-by-susan-king.html

" “The collection included original camera negatives, sound track negatives, master positives, work prints and release prints on not only Laurel and Hardy films but Our Gang, Charley Chase and Thelma Todd shorts and features like Topper and Of Mice and Men,” Scott MacQueen, UCLA’s head of preservation, said in an email interview."


Any plans for Blu Ray ?





Last edited by silentfilm on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Embedded YouTube links
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1168
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 6:27 pm

Wow, the stuff in the trailer for that festival looks & sounds nice!
Offline

brendangcarroll

  • Posts: 266
  • Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:15 am
  • Location: England

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostFri Feb 24, 2017 8:35 am

What wonderful news!

Of course, the greatest tragedy regarding these great comics is that all of their classic films have all but vanished from TV schedules, presumably due to copyright issues.

When I was growing up in the 1950s and 60s, L&H were always on TV in England, usually Saturday mornings or whenever there was a short gap in the TV schedules.

However, along with most pre-1950 black and white films, their movies have disappeared and entire generations of kids (and adults) have grown up without ever seeing them. Sad!

I hope this project will go some way to rectifying the situation.

Thanks for sharing.
"Korngold has so much talent he could give half away and still have enough left for himself..." Giacomo Puccini (1921)
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostFri Feb 24, 2017 11:18 am

Remake of Hats Off from 1945, by other actors and with a very similar washing machine :

Flying Deuxes it's on public domain, and this explain the poor prints quality of DVDs and Blu Ray editions. Turner/Warner have the original camera negative.
But this clip of the restoration, despite declared effort to use best surviving 35mm sources, appears to made use of dupes for this particular film, if we watch in 0:31
Last edited by silentfilm on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Embedded YouTube links
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostFri Feb 24, 2017 5:53 pm

In my country it also vanished from TV. I have good memories as kid too.
I watched the Hal Roach talkies and also the silents, in a dubbing version, a portuguese dubbing of Chuck McCann edition, but instead a single guy to make all voices, like Chuck did, the portuguese dubbing have a dubber for each character.

People today tends to ignore B&W films and bad prints. Or maybe also the politically "correct" phychotic fever nowadays don't like old style comedy. At least in Laurel&Hardy women always hit man, mostly :lol: so the feminists should welcome their movies and help to promote.

Maybe these restoration and 2K tranfers bring some light to TV executives.

brendangcarroll wrote:What wonderful news!

Of course, the greatest tragedy regarding these great comics is that all of their classic films have all but vanished from TV schedules, presumably due to copyright issues.

When I was growing up in the 1950s and 60s, L&H were always on TV in England, usually Saturday mornings or whenever there was a short gap in the TV schedules.
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2432
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSat Feb 25, 2017 1:58 pm

I remember going to the pictures back in the late 1970's - I forget what the main film was, but on before it was a Laurel and Hardy short. It played extremely well and I think most people were discussing it rather than the feature afterwards.
Regards from
Donald Binks

"I tawt I taw a Pooty Tat. I did! I did taw a Pooty Tat!
Offline

Marr&Colton

  • Posts: 682
  • Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSat Feb 25, 2017 5:48 pm

Flying Deuces is IN Public Domain, and an excellent quality DVD mastered from 35mm was released a few years ago by KINO.
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

Offline

Marr&Colton

  • Posts: 682
  • Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSun Feb 26, 2017 5:17 am

I usually don't refer to critics reviews unless I want details on extras, etc. A lot of the critics go into levels of technical
standards that don't make a lot of difference to the average viewer. I let my own eyes be my critic.

In the case of the Hal Roach Laurel & Hardy library, it has been well documented for years that little pristine archival elements survive due to irresponsible circulating and loss of original negatives to TV labs in the 1950s and other reasons.
The recent DVD collection of the sound shorts in the US is a quantum leap forward in quality, but still not perfection.

As a former 35mm collector with high standards for clarity, I am very satisfied with the standard KINO DVD transfer of FLYING DEUCES. I also have noticed Blu-Ray isn't always a far better presentation than DVD on some titles--depends on the original material. I project on a large screen, and am sensitive to video quality. Even 35mm prints of old classics vary in quality---especially if they are reissues.

One thing is certain after seeing many different transfers of old movies---I am glad we have the upgrades we do and not every film transfer is the same in sharpness and detail. I have learned not to be too picky or insist on everything looking fabulous.

I am grateful to any company that brings us vast improvements over what we had before. We live in a very imperfect world.
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSun Feb 26, 2017 8:16 am

Well, I just wanted to know if Kino it's equal or worse than this 2015 (Network) edition: http://www.dvdcompare.net/review.php?rid=3718

The question here is that Turner/Warner have the camera negatives for The Flying Deuces, which would allow a great restoration.

Many Blu Rays have problems with sharpness due poor encoding, low quality grain reduction, and others filterings. It's not always just the print source.

Sometimes they prefer to use a less sharp print with less scratches, blemishes and wear cause a sharper master have too much scratches, wear tear and blemishes. That's when precise careful digital restoration can help to turner the master pristine again.
That's why these new restorations will have a lot of revelations cause they are not just deep searching and restoring the best film elements, but also digitally restoring. Tumbs up to Scott Macqueen .
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline

FilmGauge

  • Posts: 64
  • Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:43 pm
  • Location: Connecticut

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSun Feb 26, 2017 8:48 am

Regarding ownership of THE FLYING DEUCES, it should be in the hands of Paramount, who inherited the NTA and Republic library inventories through the years. The movie, like many which RKO released but did not produce, became the property of Astor Pictures, who reissued it. Astor material ended up being owned by NTA, whose library is now owned by Paramount.
Offline
User avatar

bigshot

  • Posts: 735
  • Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:59 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSun Feb 26, 2017 11:12 am

The Network blu-ray of Flying Deuces is head and shoulders above any other release to home video in quality. I'd love to see more Laurel & Hardy in that kind of transfer.



By the way, Scott MacQueen favors chemical restorations, not digital ones.
Last edited by silentfilm on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Embedded YouTube link
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSun Feb 26, 2017 11:53 am

So, the Kino it's not such great. No intention to put Kino down. I'm sure they did then best they could and at the time (before network edition) they tried the best print source they could.

MacQueen believe that it's need to keep films on films, since modern pollyester film base, if proper developed (wash out all bad chemicals that can make trouble) and cold dry stored, can last about 300 years or more. If you restored digitally and keep just in digital HDs, it can screw-up in 20 years or less.

Modern photochemical copy, made with the best fine grain emulsion of today, in the best printers (step contact printers), can capture nearlly all of the finest details information of a camera negative.
People who deffends pure digital work always try to point generation loss in photochemical work. They are right in few ocasions, like some wet gate in optical printers. I'm not sure, but I think this do not happens, or not that much, in a contact wetgate step printer.

But even the digital restoration made by direct scan of the original sources, that can be expansive if then source it's not in great shape or if it's warped, ends up with photochemical másters printed in laser printers from digital files.
I supose in Laure Hardy films, photochemical duplication before digital fix was less expansive than direct digital scan. The budget for this work was quite dificult to raise, and we must thank MacQueen for this initiative.

bigshot wrote:The Network blu-ray of Flying Deuces is head and shoulders above any other release to home video in quality. I'd love to see more Laurel & Hardy in that kind of transfer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0_T_UOpRp4

By the way, Scott MacQueen favors chemical restorations, not digital ones.
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline

Marr&Colton

  • Posts: 682
  • Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostSun Feb 26, 2017 12:12 pm

FilmGauge wrote:Regarding ownership of THE FLYING DEUCES, it should be in the hands of Paramount, who inherited the NTA and Republic library inventories through the years. The movie, like many which RKO released but did not produce, became the property of Astor Pictures, who reissued it. Astor material ended up being owned by NTA, whose library is now owned by Paramount.


---------------------------------------------------------------


Astor Pictures only had theatrical reissue rights---ownership of the copyright usually remained with the original holder unless sold outright with remaining prints and negatives.

According to ALL my commercial sources of Public Domain footage---they do their due diligence in copyright searches--
FLYING DEUCES is Public Domain. Here's one of the more well known company entries:

http://www.buyoutfootage.com/pages/titl ... f_004.html
Offline

Mark Zimmer

  • Posts: 236
  • Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:16 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostTue Feb 28, 2017 2:34 pm

Are we talking about the rights to FLYING DEUCES (which so far as I know is public domain), or the ownership of the negatives here? Those aren't the same thing, of course. Whoever owns the negatives might see no point in a release due to the public domain status, which would mean they'd immediately be ripped off as soon as they released a version from the negatives.
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostTue Feb 28, 2017 5:07 pm

Well remambered.

I'm curious if Turner/Warner allowed the use of the original negatives of Flying Deuces for this new restoration project of Laurel & HArdy films.
The short Flying Deuces images scene, in the clip about the restoration project, looked dupped.

Mark Zimmer wrote:Are we talking about the rights to FLYING DEUCES (which so far as I know is public domain), or the ownership of the negatives here? Those aren't the same thing, of course. Whoever owns the negatives might see no point in a release due to the public domain status, which would mean they'd immediately be ripped off as soon as they released a version from the negatives.
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline
User avatar

Ray Faiola

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:18 am
  • Location: Ellenville, NY

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Mar 01, 2017 5:44 am

All Darc wrote:I'm curious if Turner/Warner allowed the use of the original negatives of Flying Deuces for this new restoration project of Laurel & HArdy films.
The short Flying Deuces images scene, in the clip about the restoration project, looked dupped.


Turner/Warners does not own the materials to THE FLYING DEUCES. Paramount inherited the materials by virtue of their purchase of NTA/Republic. Even though THE FLYING DEUCES was originally distributed by RKO, it was an independent production that was eventually sold to NTA. By the way, when Republic eventually released a video copy of the film, it was an Astors reissue print (35mm) in gorgeous quality but with two edits in the print used for the transfer. So gosh only knows what is actually in the Paramount vault.
Classic Film Scores on CD
http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Mar 01, 2017 11:55 am

According wikipedia Warner have the camera negatives:


"Public domain

The Flying Deuces is one of two Laurel and Hardy features in the public domain, the other being Atoll K. As such, it regularly appears on inexpensive DVD or video compilations. Turner/Warner Bros currently possess the original negative, but have not released the film."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flying_Deuces
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline
User avatar

Jim Reid

  • Posts: 1491
  • Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:16 am
  • Location: Dallas, Texas

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Mar 01, 2017 1:57 pm

I would trust Ray over Wikipedia anytime.
Offline

moviepas

  • Posts: 949
  • Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:51 am

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 12:23 am

No good updating Wikipedia. This brings an instant message from all in sundry accusing me if defacing Wikipedia and so on and a threat of been barred from viewing the site. I gave up. Let them have their mistakes and lack of up to date information.
Offline
User avatar

Ray Faiola

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:18 am
  • Location: Ellenville, NY

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 9:17 am

According to fellow collector Jim Harwood:

The film’s producer, Boris Morros, would have maintained control of the negative and probably turned it over to Astor Pictures when they reissued the film after RKO’s distribution contract ended. Astor hacked off the original logo and main titles in the process. It was sometime after this that the camera negative went missing, the copyright for the film lapsed and everyone and their brother duped the film, resulting in a multitude of poor quality prints and video releases. Having in the past worked at the Library of Congress’ nitrate film vaults (where the bulk of the nitrate RKO negatives are stored) and for Turner Entertainment (who bought the RKO library) I can tell you that the original negative for The Flying Deuces was nowhere to be found. If it still exists, it’s in a film lab or archive somewhere, or in private hands.

And I very much doubt the ofiical owners, Paramount, have it.
Classic Film Scores on CD
http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
Offline

All Darc

  • Posts: 1041
  • Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm
  • Location: Brazil

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 9:38 am

Ray, I'm sorry, I didn't knew you were so connected to film preservation & archives.
Thank you for the precise information.

Do you know if the best know material is shot from the camera negatives in good duplication stock ?
Keep thinking...

Image
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2216
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 9:38 am

Geez, so much foofaraw over one of the crappiest movies The Boys ever made!

Jim
Offline
User avatar

Ray Faiola

  • Posts: 911
  • Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:18 am
  • Location: Ellenville, NY

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 4:46 pm

Oh, come on Jim. FLYING DEUCES is a very respectable almost post-Roach feature. It might have been better as a streamliner a la BEAU HUNKS, but it is certainly better than their two Metro disasters AIR RAID WARDENS and NOTHING BUT TROUBLE.

I am not connected to restoration or archives, but I know lots of folks in the business. That's why I quoted Jim directly rather than merely conveyed his information. I always think it's a good idea to share sources of info.

There are some very good video versions (DVD and blu ray) from 35mm prints. It's tough to be a pd film. Your parents seldom love you like they should!!
Classic Film Scores on CD
http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
Offline

vitaphone

  • Posts: 412
  • Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:50 am
  • Location: New Jersey

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 6:58 am

I fully agree with Ray and cannot fathom how anyone could trash FLYING DEUCES. It is indeed the best of their post-Roach films, made with many of their Roach comrades and is very enjoyable.
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2216
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 9:27 am

vitaphone wrote:I fully agree with Ray and cannot fathom how anyone could trash FLYING DEUCES. It is indeed the best of their post-Roach films, made with many of their Roach comrades and is very enjoyable.


Being the least crappy of a bunch of crappies doesn't make it any the less of a crappy.

Yes, it's the best of the post-Roach films and arguably the only watchable one of that dismal bunch. But so much chatter over it in this thread is kind of misleading to any reader who has never seen it. That poor soul must be thinking it's a brilliant diamond in need of perfect restoration and an extras-filled Criterion release, followed by minusculely-improved multiple releases just like Phantom of the Opera or The General, when in fact it's more like London After Midnight, i.e., a guaranteed disappointment even if far from being a total write-off.

I guess I'll have to bring my pristine copy of Hats Off out of the attic and let people see what Laurel and Hardy were really all about...

Jim
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1168
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostFri Mar 03, 2017 10:46 am

Jim, let's Double that with my workprint of the Marx's HUMOR RISK!
Offline

Silas

  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:00 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 5:56 pm

The best quality version of Flying Deuces is the Network Blu-ray. It comes from the UK but is programmed to play in all regions on any Blu-ray player. Highly recommended.

The Kino DVD of Flying Deuces has a fatal flaw -- the film is sped up, literally shortening the film by several minutes and changing the pitch of the audio.
Offline
User avatar

bigshot

  • Posts: 735
  • Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:59 pm

Re: Laurel & Hardy restoration.

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 9:46 pm

I have found that on the internet a lot of people's opinions are exaggerated paraphrasing of what they read somewhere. If they've seen the film at all, it was over 20 years ago on VHS. The post Roach L&H films may not hold together as features as well as the Roach features, but they still contain great sequences where Laurel broke out of the script they had been handed and created bits that were both idiomatic and funny. There's still gold in there, just not as much as at Roach.

I have the Network blu-ray of Flying Deuces, and it has plenty of entertainment value. It is a beautiful transfer too.

Return to Talkie News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest