The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Post news stories and home video release announcements here.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2327
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 3:13 pm

earlytalkiebuffRob wrote:
Donald Binks wrote:
I think that indigenous folk were treated in much the same way throughout the Empire. Right up until the 1970's Aboriginal children in Australia were separated from their families and fostered by whites in order to better assimilate them.

The nation has formally apologised in the last few years.

You might get some idea of what it was all about from the film "The Rabbit Proof Fence" which came out a few years back.

(At the moment the national day - "Australia Day" on 26th January is being lambasted because it is seen as "Invasion Day". Recently statues of Captain Cook have been defaced. Whilst we can acknowledge now in hindsight that evils and wrongs were done in the past, I believe we all just have to now muck in and get on with things the best way we can. )


We had some of this nonsense over here in England with regard to a statue or bust of Cecil Rhodes, which had started to 'cause offence' after umpteen years in situ. Of course all that was needed was for those offended to either avoid the thing, or to break wind (not easy to do on cue), cock a snook or to deliver a hearty Bronx Cheer when passing it...


to some Rhodes stands for taking the wealth(diamonds) out of S. Africa without much benefit to the South Africans. Wasn't the ??Kapoor Diamond taken from India during the Raj colonial regime to be placed in Queen Victoria's tiara, and was later recently returned to India? As for Captain Cook, some now refer to him as Captain Crook, but Mutiny on the Bounty is still a good film, I watched it a couple of years ago. History isn't always pretty, but we should learn from it.

Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it. .....Santayana :wink:
Offline

ajabrams

  • Posts: 246
  • Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:50 pm

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 5:17 pm

Not to be too pedantic, but it was the Koh-i-noor Diamond and it was not returned as the decision was that it was not stolen but gifted to Queen Victoria. Also Mutiny on the Bounty is about Captain Bligh not Captain Cook -- but other than that, I agree with your points.
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2817
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 5:36 pm

I like the way that history goes around in circles. When I went to school and "did learning" we gloried in the wonderful exploits of those who "opened up" the Empire. Now the young 'uns are taught that everything has got the footrot in that department. I wonder if I shall live long enough for the circle to turn again? (Watching the films of the 1930's one gets to see the old outlook personified).
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline
User avatar

MaryGH

  • Posts: 213
  • Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 6:10 pm

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 11:00 am

Reminds me of when some of the older cartoons from the 1940's and early 1950's were criticized for their portrayal of minorities.

One of the best IMHO and funniest was Tex Avery's "Magical Maestro" for MGM (which also showed the Tom and Jerry cartoons) which was sliced to ribbons not only by critics but also Ted Turner when he used to show it on his Cartoon Network. The one where the two dogs are in a theatre, one is a conductor, the other an opera singer, involves everything from blackface, to Asians, hicks, and islanders. One of the funniest cartoons I have ever seen in my entire life. But that one, like "Gone With the Wind", will weather whatever the political climate is.
Petition: Turner Enter./Warner Bros: Please digitalize Tom Tyler's FBO silent film westerns

http://bit.ly/2ueCvHe
---
Aventuras de Tom Tyler

http://triggertomblog.blogspot.com/
Offline
User avatar

syd

  • Posts: 612
  • Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:55 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 7:38 pm

I always looked at Magical Maestro as a ribbing
of snotty opera culture of the time. Tex Avery
puts on an opera stage caricatures performing low brow
music that a typical opera patron of the time would look
down upon. You don't really have to go back to the 1940's
and 1950's for politically incorrect material. Try watching
a Dean Martin Roast from the late 1970's and early 1980's.
Offline
User avatar

Frederica

  • Posts: 4830
  • Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:00 pm
  • Location: Kowea Town, Los Angeles

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Sep 11, 2017 10:25 am

sepiatone wrote:to some Rhodes stands for taking the wealth(diamonds) out of S. Africa without much benefit to the South Africans. Wasn't the ??Kapoor Diamond taken from India during the Raj colonial regime to be placed in Queen Victoria's tiara, and was later recently returned to India? As for Captain Cook, some now refer to him as Captain Crook, but Mutiny on the Bounty is still a good film, I watched it a couple of years ago. History isn't always pretty, but we should learn from it.

Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it. .....Santayana :wink:


I object to the idea that movies represent history.
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
http://www.nitanaldi.com"
http://www.facebook.com/NitaNaldiSilentVamp"
Offline

earlytalkiebuffRob

  • Posts: 2744
  • Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:53 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Sep 11, 2017 1:54 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
earlytalkiebuffRob wrote:And talking of foxes, I'd better go out and feed the little blighter!
Oh, I thought you were going to say "...and guard the henhouse."...


...which brings up the old chestnut:

Nosey neighbour: " I say, Brown, I hear your wife's not too well these days."

Nervous, harried, irritable husband (in garden, doing carpentry): "Yes, she's in bed at the moment."

Neighbour (cupping ear): "Is that her coughin'?"

Husband: "No you fool - it's a henhouse!"

Not sure how old that one is, probably 1932 at latest...
Offline
User avatar

Dan

  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:35 am
  • Location: Staten Island, NY

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostFri Sep 29, 2017 1:32 pm

The Blackbird wrote:http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/26/gone-with-the-wind-theater-canceled-screening/

So, er, the Orpheum Theatre in Memphis, as part of its "stated mission" to "entertain, educate and enlighten the communities it serves," has decided to prove it by trying to pretend history never happened and tossed GONE WITH THE WIND into the trash bin after getting some complaints about its content by some people whose mind-set can be adequately summed up by one spokesperson's stated aim that "slowly but surely, we will rid this community of all tributes to white supremacy." Certainly a gun is being held to patrons' heads to force them to go into the theater and see it. I like how one poster on the theater's Facebook page brilliantly observed GONE WITH THE WIND is "racist." Thanks for pointing that out, pal. You may remember I mentioned IMDB commentators were enraged about Peter Sellers playing Charlie Chan in MURDER BY DEATH or STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS being "racist" because none of the lead actors in it happen to be Asian.

Well, we all knew this was coming, and it will only be the beginning. For quite some time, I've been thinking about starting a discussion about how to deal with the fact that classic films are sadly loaded with embarrassingly racist moments that are completely offensive to modern sensibilities, but goodness knows recent events have been moving so fast I was thinking I for one couldn't even keep up.

I gotta say, I've been surprised there hasn't been a movement to get TCM itself banned for years now....



I wonder how long it will be before Warner pulls GWTW from their video catalog? Hold on to your DVDs / Blu-rays.
Offline
User avatar

2 Reel

  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 am
  • Location: Earth, for the time being

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSat Sep 30, 2017 4:52 pm

This current movement seems more hysterical than historical. Let's hope cooler mindsets prevail and movies, books, artwork, and statues can always be viewed and appreciated for their artistry, even if embraced only as an artifact of their times. Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
They call me "Dangerous Dal"
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1230
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSun Oct 01, 2017 10:17 am

2 Reel wrote:Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
Were they? Isn't that a myth?
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline
User avatar

boblipton

  • Posts: 5180
  • Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:01 pm
  • Location: Clement Clarke Moore's Farm

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSun Oct 01, 2017 12:19 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
2 Reel wrote:Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
Were they? Isn't that a myth?


I was there.

Bob
He was deeply moved, for the whisky had been generously measured.

-- Dorothy Sayers
Offline
User avatar

2 Reel

  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 10:34 am
  • Location: Earth, for the time being

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostSun Oct 01, 2017 5:27 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
2 Reel wrote:Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
Were they? Isn't that a myth?

They were paid nothing, but had free use of all the sand they wanted.
They call me "Dangerous Dal"
Offline
User avatar

westegg

  • Posts: 1228
  • Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:13 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 6:10 am

That does it! Tear down the pyramids!
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1230
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 7:43 am

boblipton wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
2 Reel wrote:Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
Were they? Isn't that a myth?


I was there.

Bob
Well THAT explains a few things.


By the way there is a "before" too many in your signature:
boblipton wrote:To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1374
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 9:16 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
2 Reel wrote:Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
Were they? Isn't that a myth?


That was the Old Theory.

The Newer One, is that they were more like the WPA: a work project for the peasants in the off-crop season.
Offline

robertelee

  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 11:34 am

The thing about the pyramid labor is this; These people didn't get paid, but they probably worked willingly. You see, for the ancient Egyptians you believed that pyramids were necessary. If the Pharaohs tomb didn't get completed in time, there would be no place for the Ka to reside, and the world might end. When the pharaoh dies his spirit becomes Osiris and resides in the temple. He know makes the sun rise. The ancients believed that if this imortal residence went uncompleted the sun wouldn't rise, and so the workers were probably happy to help in the off season.
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1230
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 11:59 am

Look, there's so little evidence that it's hard to make ANY definitive statement. And also: Does payment have to consist of actual money and not barter? Are religious and feudal duties similar to slavery? And if YES to the latter, then what if people are technically free but 1% of the population just keeps making their own lives easier at their expense?
Moral: If you stop with a literal definition of slavery, then most of us are still slaves to this day!

I heard a very good one the other week, where a "Fight Against Slavery" organisation was looking for an unpaid intern...Even the Daily Mail could see the irony in that.
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline
User avatar

Frederica

  • Posts: 4830
  • Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:00 pm
  • Location: Kowea Town, Los Angeles

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 1:27 pm

robertelee wrote:The thing about the pyramid labor is this; These people didn't get paid, but they probably worked willingly. You see, for the ancient Egyptians you believed that pyramids were necessary. If the Pharaohs tomb didn't get completed in time, there would be no place for the Ka to reside, and the world might end. When the pharaoh dies his spirit becomes Osiris and resides in the temple. He know makes the sun rise. The ancients believed that if this imortal residence went uncompleted the sun wouldn't rise, and so the workers were probably happy to help in the off season.


They were paid. Skilled workers were paid more than labor, who were often paid in food/beer.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... st=&page=2" target="_blank

I'm sure that some people working on those pyramids did believe in those gods. But graves and other sites were robbed instantly if they weren't guarded or locations hidden, so clearly not everyone did.
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
http://www.nitanaldi.com"
http://www.facebook.com/NitaNaldiSilentVamp"
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2473
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 2:51 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:Look, there's so little evidence that it's hard to make ANY definitive statement. And also: Does payment have to consist of actual money and not barter? Are religious and feudal duties similar to slavery? And if YES to the latter, then what if people are technically free but 1% of the population just keeps making their own lives easier at their expense?
Moral: If you stop with a literal definition of slavery, then most of us are still slaves to this day!


Ever heard the expression "wage slaves"?

Jim
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1230
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 3:32 pm

Frederica wrote:
robertelee wrote:The thing about the pyramid labor is this; These people didn't get paid, but they probably worked willingly. You see, for the ancient Egyptians you believed that pyramids were necessary. If the Pharaohs tomb didn't get completed in time, there would be no place for the Ka to reside, and the world might end. When the pharaoh dies his spirit becomes Osiris and resides in the temple. He know makes the sun rise. The ancients believed that if this imortal residence went uncompleted the sun wouldn't rise, and so the workers were probably happy to help in the off season.


They were paid. Skilled workers were paid more than labor, who were often paid in food/beer.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... st=&page=2" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I'm sure that some people working on those pyramids did believe in those gods. But graves and other sites were robbed instantly if they weren't guarded or locations hidden, so clearly not everyone did.
Hmm. That article is about ancient beer, ancient wine, and other beginnings of alcohol history. And not about anything else. The fact that someone in passing throws in a generic claim about the pyramids isn't worth much. Pure name dropping. It's a bit like saying "Hey I heared the same story on Firefly [they did mention it there in fact], and that was a great TV series, so it must be true.".
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline
User avatar

Frederica

  • Posts: 4830
  • Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:00 pm
  • Location: Kowea Town, Los Angeles

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 5:24 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
Frederica wrote:
They were paid. Skilled workers were paid more than labor, who were often paid in food/beer.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -17016372/

I'm sure that some people working on those pyramids did believe in those gods. But graves and other sites were robbed instantly if they weren't guarded or locations hidden, so clearly not everyone did.
Hmm. That article is about ancient beer, ancient wine, and other beginnings of alcohol history. And not about anything else. The fact that someone in passing throws in a generic claim about the pyramids isn't worth much. Pure name dropping. It's a bit like saying "Hey I heared the same story on Firefly [they did mention it there in fact], and that was a great TV series, so it must be true.".


Oh for heaven's sake. Here are reports on the logbooks of Merer, which went on display at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo, last year. They are so far the oldest papyri known, bureaucratic daily accounts covering costs/pay for a team of 200 workers supervised by Merer. They did finishing limestone work on both the pyramid of Khufu and the harbor of Khufu. This is one of the more recent pieces of evidence that workers on the pyramids were paid.

Tallet, Pierre, and Gregory Marouard. "THE HARBOR OF KHUFU on the Red Sea Coast at Wadi al-Jarf, Egypt." Near Eastern Archaeology 77, no. 1 (March 2014): 4-14.

Here are a few more articles about pyramid construction.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956619/
https://www.livescience.com/28961-ancie ... rthed.html"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/eg ... s_01.shtml"

This information has been known for decades, btw, the pyramids are surrounded by villages built for both skilled and unskilled workers. And like all good bureaucrats the Egyptians left accounting records galore,
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
http://www.nitanaldi.com"
http://www.facebook.com/NitaNaldiSilentVamp"
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2817
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 8:19 pm

I thought everyone knew - the Pyramids were built by either D.W. Griffith or Cecil B. deMille!
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2473
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 5:43 am

Donald Binks wrote:I thought everyone knew - the Pyramids were built by either D.W. Griffith or Cecil B. deMille!


Employing wage slaves!

Jim
Offline

R Michael Pyle

  • Posts: 1501
  • Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 6:04 am

What's this thread about...?
Offline
User avatar

westegg

  • Posts: 1228
  • Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:13 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 6:25 am

War on pyramids, I think.
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2817
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 6:33 am

westegg wrote:War on pyramids, I think.


" 'War on the Pyramids'... 'War on the Pyramids'...I like the sound of that. Write that down Miss Fosdyke - that's a great name for a picture. Who've we got? See if Jimmy...no, no, what about Edward? No, Cary Grant and Myrna Loy... Great! Get the script department working on it right away.....boy, oh boy, it'll make millions!"
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2473
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 8:30 am

Donald Binks wrote:
westegg wrote:War on pyramids, I think.


" 'War on the Pyramids'... 'War on the Pyramids'...I like the sound of that. Write that down Miss Fosdyke - that's a great name for a picture. Who've we got? See if Jimmy...no, no, what about Edward? No, Cary Grant and Myrna Loy... Great! Get the script department working on it right away.....boy, oh boy, it'll make millions!"


"Be sure to include William Powell, too. He'll look absolutely hilarious in that ancient Egyptian headdress! It's exactly like the pageboy wig he wore in so many silent films! By the way, did they have martinis back in the pyramid days?"

Jim
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1230
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 9:46 am

Donald Binks wrote:
westegg wrote:War on pyramids, I think.


" 'War on the Pyramids'... 'War on the Pyramids'...I like the sound of that. Write that down Miss Fosdyke - that's a great name for a picture. Who've we got? See if Jimmy...no, no, what about Edward? No, Cary Grant and Myrna Loy... Great! Get the script department working on it right away.....boy, oh boy, it'll make millions!"
I'm fine with war on pyramids, as long as I have the higher ground. It's a bit tricky but if you keep your balance you'll be fine.
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline
User avatar

JFK

  • Posts: 2023
  • Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:44 pm

The Pyramid Wars

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 10:33 am

The Pyramid Wars were a real, much-chronicled, event- spanning centuries, costing thousands.
Begun by King Payola of Philadelphus,
Image
the fighting reached its apex under the Osmond dynasty,
Image
with peace coming - to the presumed chagrin of the Duck dynasty - with the reign of Strahan the 1st.
Image
So it is written.
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1374
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

PostTue Oct 03, 2017 11:33 am

So it shall be undone.
PreviousNext

Return to Talkie News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests