Tweet The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

I think that indigenous folk were treated in much the same way throughout the Empire. Right up until the 1970's Aboriginal children in Australia were separated from their families and fostered by whites in order to better assimilate them.

The nation has formally apologised in the last few years.

You might get some idea of what it was all about from the film "The Rabbit Proof Fence" which came out a few years back.

(At the moment the national day - "Australia Day" on 26th January is being lambasted because it is seen as "Invasion Day". Recently statues of Captain Cook have been defaced. Whilst we can acknowledge now in hindsight that evils and wrongs were done in the past, I believe we all just have to now muck in and get on with things the best way we can. )

We had some of this nonsense over here in England with regard to a statue or bust of Cecil Rhodes, which had started to 'cause offence' after umpteen years in situ. Of course all that was needed was for those offended to either avoid the thing, or to break wind (not easy to do on cue), cock a snook or to deliver a hearty Bronx Cheer when passing it...

to some Rhodes stands for taking the wealth(diamonds) out of S. Africa without much benefit to the South Africans. Wasn't the ??Kapoor Diamond taken from India during the Raj colonial regime to be placed in Queen Victoria's tiara, and was later recently returned to India? As for Captain Cook, some now refer to him as Captain Crook, but Mutiny on the Bounty is still a good film, I watched it a couple of years ago. History isn't always pretty, but we should learn from it.

Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it. .....Santayana

Not to be too pedantic, but it was the Koh-i-noor Diamond and it was not returned as the decision was that it was not stolen but gifted to Queen Victoria. Also Mutiny on the Bounty is about Captain Bligh not Captain Cook -- but other than that, I agree with your points.

I like the way that history goes around in circles. When I went to school and "did learning" we gloried in the wonderful exploits of those who "opened up" the Empire. Now the young 'uns are taught that everything has got the footrot in that department. I wonder if I shall live long enough for the circle to turn again? (Watching the films of the 1930's one gets to see the old outlook personified).

Reminds me of when some of the older cartoons from the 1940's and early 1950's were criticized for their portrayal of minorities.

One of the best IMHO and funniest was Tex Avery's "Magical Maestro" for MGM (which also showed the Tom and Jerry cartoons) which was sliced to ribbons not only by critics but also Ted Turner when he used to show it on his Cartoon Network. The one where the two dogs are in a theatre, one is a conductor, the other an opera singer, involves everything from blackface, to Asians, hicks, and islanders. One of the funniest cartoons I have ever seen in my entire life. But that one, like "Gone With the Wind", will weather whatever the political climate is.

I always looked at Magical Maestro as a ribbing
of snotty opera culture of the time. Tex Avery
puts on an opera stage caricatures performing low brow
music that a typical opera patron of the time would look
down upon. You don't really have to go back to the 1940's
and 1950's for politically incorrect material. Try watching
a Dean Martin Roast from the late 1970's and early 1980's.

to some Rhodes stands for taking the wealth(diamonds) out of S. Africa without much benefit to the South Africans. Wasn't the ??Kapoor Diamond taken from India during the Raj colonial regime to be placed in Queen Victoria's tiara, and was later recently returned to India? As for Captain Cook, some now refer to him as Captain Crook, but Mutiny on the Bounty is still a good film, I watched it a couple of years ago. History isn't always pretty, but we should learn from it.

Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it. .....Santayana

I object to the idea that movies represent history.

And talking of foxes, I'd better go out and feed the little blighter!

Oh, I thought you were going to say "...and guard the henhouse."...

...which brings up the old chestnut:

Nosey neighbour: " I say, Brown, I hear your wife's not too well these days."

Nervous, harried, irritable husband (in garden, doing carpentry): "Yes, she's in bed at the moment."

Neighbour (cupping ear): "Is that her coughin'?"

Husband: "No you fool - it's a henhouse!"

Not sure how old that one is, probably 1932 at latest...

http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/26/gone-with-the-wind-theater-canceled-screening/

So, er, the Orpheum Theatre in Memphis, as part of its "stated mission" to "entertain, educate and enlighten the communities it serves," has decided to prove it by trying to pretend history never happened and tossed GONE WITH THE WIND into the trash bin after getting some complaints about its content by some people whose mind-set can be adequately summed up by one spokesperson's stated aim that "slowly but surely, we will rid this community of all tributes to white supremacy." Certainly a gun is being held to patrons' heads to force them to go into the theater and see it. I like how one poster on the theater's Facebook page brilliantly observed GONE WITH THE WIND is "racist." Thanks for pointing that out, pal. You may remember I mentioned IMDB commentators were enraged about Peter Sellers playing Charlie Chan in MURDER BY DEATH or STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS being "racist" because none of the lead actors in it happen to be Asian.

Well, we all knew this was coming, and it will only be the beginning. For quite some time, I've been thinking about starting a discussion about how to deal with the fact that classic films are sadly loaded with embarrassingly racist moments that are completely offensive to modern sensibilities, but goodness knows recent events have been moving so fast I was thinking I for one couldn't even keep up.

I gotta say, I've been surprised there hasn't been a movement to get TCM itself banned for years now....

I wonder how long it will be before Warner pulls GWTW from their video catalog? Hold on to your DVDs / Blu-rays.

This current movement seems more hysterical than historical. Let's hope cooler mindsets prevail and movies, books, artwork, and statues can always be viewed and appreciated for their artistry, even if embraced only as an artifact of their times. Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?

Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?

Were they? Isn't that a myth?

Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?

Were they? Isn't that a myth?

I was there.

Bob

Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?

Were they? Isn't that a myth?

They were paid nothing, but had free use of all the sand they wanted.

That does it! Tear down the pyramids!

Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?

Were they? Isn't that a myth?

I was there.

Bob

Well THAT explains a few things.


By the way there is a "before" too many in your signature:

To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?

Were they? Isn't that a myth?

That was the Old Theory.

The Newer One, is that they were more like the WPA: a work project for the peasants in the off-crop season.

The thing about the pyramid labor is this; These people didn't get paid, but they probably worked willingly. You see, for the ancient Egyptians you believed that pyramids were necessary. If the Pharaohs tomb didn't get completed in time, there would be no place for the Ka to reside, and the world might end. When the pharaoh dies his spirit becomes Osiris and resides in the temple. He know makes the sun rise. The ancients believed that if this imortal residence went uncompleted the sun wouldn't rise, and so the workers were probably happy to help in the off season.

Look, there's so little evidence that it's hard to make ANY definitive statement. And also: Does payment have to consist of actual money and not barter? Are religious and feudal duties similar to slavery? And if YES to the latter, then what if people are technically free but 1% of the population just keeps making their own lives easier at their expense?
Moral: If you stop with a literal definition of slavery, then most of us are still slaves to this day!

I heard a very good one the other week, where a "Fight Against Slavery" organisation was looking for an unpaid intern...Even the Daily Mail could see the irony in that.

The thing about the pyramid labor is this; These people didn't get paid, but they probably worked willingly. You see, for the ancient Egyptians you believed that pyramids were necessary. If the Pharaohs tomb didn't get completed in time, there would be no place for the Ka to reside, and the world might end. When the pharaoh dies his spirit becomes Osiris and resides in the temple. He know makes the sun rise. The ancients believed that if this imortal residence went uncompleted the sun wouldn't rise, and so the workers were probably happy to help in the off season.

They were paid. Skilled workers were paid more than labor, who were often paid in food/beer.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... st=&page=2" target="_blank

I'm sure that some people working on those pyramids did believe in those gods. But graves and other sites were robbed instantly if they weren't guarded or locations hidden, so clearly not everyone did.

Look, there's so little evidence that it's hard to make ANY definitive statement. And also: Does payment have to consist of actual money and not barter? Are religious and feudal duties similar to slavery? And if YES to the latter, then what if people are technically free but 1% of the population just keeps making their own lives easier at their expense?
Moral: If you stop with a literal definition of slavery, then most of us are still slaves to this day!

Ever heard the expression "wage slaves"?

Jim

The thing about the pyramid labor is this; These people didn't get paid, but they probably worked willingly. You see, for the ancient Egyptians you believed that pyramids were necessary. If the Pharaohs tomb didn't get completed in time, there would be no place for the Ka to reside, and the world might end. When the pharaoh dies his spirit becomes Osiris and resides in the temple. He know makes the sun rise. The ancients believed that if this imortal residence went uncompleted the sun wouldn't rise, and so the workers were probably happy to help in the off season.

They were paid. Skilled workers were paid more than labor, who were often paid in food/beer.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... st=&page=2" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I'm sure that some people working on those pyramids did believe in those gods. But graves and other sites were robbed instantly if they weren't guarded or locations hidden, so clearly not everyone did.

Hmm. That article is about ancient beer, ancient wine, and other beginnings of alcohol history. And not about anything else. The fact that someone in passing throws in a generic claim about the pyramids isn't worth much. Pure name dropping. It's a bit like saying "Hey I heared the same story on Firefly [they did mention it there in fact], and that was a great TV series, so it must be true.".

They were paid. Skilled workers were paid more than labor, who were often paid in food/beer.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -17016372/

I'm sure that some people working on those pyramids did believe in those gods. But graves and other sites were robbed instantly if they weren't guarded or locations hidden, so clearly not everyone did.

Hmm. That article is about ancient beer, ancient wine, and other beginnings of alcohol history. And not about anything else. The fact that someone in passing throws in a generic claim about the pyramids isn't worth much. Pure name dropping. It's a bit like saying "Hey I heared the same story on Firefly [they did mention it there in fact], and that was a great TV series, so it must be true.".

Oh for heaven's sake. Here are reports on the logbooks of Merer, which went on display at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo, last year. They are so far the oldest papyri known, bureaucratic daily accounts covering costs/pay for a team of 200 workers supervised by Merer. They did finishing limestone work on both the pyramid of Khufu and the harbor of Khufu. This is one of the more recent pieces of evidence that workers on the pyramids were paid.

Tallet, Pierre, and Gregory Marouard. "THE HARBOR OF KHUFU on the Red Sea Coast at Wadi al-Jarf, Egypt." Near Eastern Archaeology 77, no. 1 (March 2014): 4-14.

Here are a few more articles about pyramid construction.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956619/
https://www.livescience.com/28961-ancie ... rthed.html"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/eg ... s_01.shtml"

This information has been known for decades, btw, the pyramids are surrounded by villages built for both skilled and unskilled workers. And like all good bureaucrats the Egyptians left accounting records galore,

I thought everyone knew - the Pyramids were built by either D.W. Griffith or Cecil B. deMille!

I thought everyone knew - the Pyramids were built by either D.W. Griffith or Cecil B. deMille!

Employing wage slaves!

Jim

What's this thread about...?

War on pyramids, I think.

War on pyramids, I think.

" 'War on the Pyramids'... 'War on the Pyramids'...I like the sound of that. Write that down Miss Fosdyke - that's a great name for a picture. Who've we got? See if Jimmy...no, no, what about Edward? No, Cary Grant and Myrna Loy... Great! Get the script department working on it right away.....boy, oh boy, it'll make millions!"

War on pyramids, I think.

" 'War on the Pyramids'... 'War on the Pyramids'...I like the sound of that. Write that down Miss Fosdyke - that's a great name for a picture. Who've we got? See if Jimmy...no, no, what about Edward? No, Cary Grant and Myrna Loy... Great! Get the script department working on it right away.....boy, oh boy, it'll make millions!"

"Be sure to include William Powell, too. He'll look absolutely hilarious in that ancient Egyptian headdress! It's exactly like the pageboy wig he wore in so many silent films! By the way, did they have martinis back in the pyramid days?"

Jim

War on pyramids, I think.

" 'War on the Pyramids'... 'War on the Pyramids'...I like the sound of that. Write that down Miss Fosdyke - that's a great name for a picture. Who've we got? See if Jimmy...no, no, what about Edward? No, Cary Grant and Myrna Loy... Great! Get the script department working on it right away.....boy, oh boy, it'll make millions!"

I'm fine with war on pyramids, as long as I have the higher ground. It's a bit tricky but if you keep your balance you'll be fine.

The Pyramid Wars were a real, much-chronicled, event- spanning centuries, costing thousands.
Begun by King Payola of Philadelphus,

the fighting reached its apex under the Osmond dynasty,

with peace coming - to the presumed chagrin of the Duck dynasty - with the reign of Strahan the 1st.

So it is written.

So it shall be undone.