Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

Open, general discussion of silent films, personalities and history.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Paul Penna

  • Posts: 507
  • Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:02 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostWed Mar 29, 2017 10:09 pm

missdupont wrote:It's not Monte Blue. He was tall and this guy isn't and he doesn't look much of anything like Blue.


I agree; I can always spot Monte Blue in one of his post-silent roles, and it never would have occurred to me that this guy was him. Plus in the first clip he takes a pretty good fall when Superman wallops him; I think he's an older stunt guy, myself.
Offline
User avatar

telical

  • Posts: 944
  • Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostWed Mar 29, 2017 11:23 pm

Donald Binks wrote:
wich2 wrote:Not sold yet.


What are you? A serial argumentalist? I've won the prize, so there! (sticks out tongue). :D


Of course, you got 65 in 1962, that was chiseled in stone in show biz history, right?
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 9:27 am

missdupont wrote:It's not Monte Blue. He was tall and this guy isn't and he doesn't look much of anything like Blue.

I'm sorry Miss Dupont, but it is very much Monte Blue. I wouldn't have gone out on a limb if he wasn't. Yes Monte was 6'3". The stunt Superman, where Monte smashes him with a chair and rock over his head, could possibly be Jock Mahoney. It's a possibility it is Jock who was still a stuntman in the early 50s. Jock was 6'4" according to Google Search. :)
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 9:33 am

Paul Penna wrote:
missdupont wrote:It's not Monte Blue. He was tall and this guy isn't and he doesn't look much of anything like Blue.


I agree; I can always spot Monte Blue in one of his post-silent roles, and it never would have occurred to me that this guy was him. Plus in the first clip he takes a pretty good fall when Superman wallops him; I think he's an older stunt guy, myself.


A credit to Blue's acting and willingness to take a bump for the director at his age. Blue started out as a stuntman for Griffith. These old troopers weren't afraid to get down and dirty ie Marie Dressler being quite agile for a large woman let alone a 60+ year old and even De Wolf Hopper stating in an interview in the 1930s that he didn't feel his age and was able to do everything physical that he had been doing since the 1880s.
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 9:36 am

Donald Binks wrote:
wich2 wrote:Not sold yet.


What are you? A serial argumentalist? I've won the prize, so there! (sticks out tongue). :D

would that be in American dollars or Australian dollars. :wink: :)
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1403
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 11:06 am

sepiatone wrote:Yes Monte was 6'3"


Then how can the yegg we're discussing be probably shorter, and almost certainly not taller, than Dan Seymour in both scenes, considering Seymour's height next to 5' 8" Bogie?

Image
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 2:19 pm

sepiatone wrote:
Donald Binks wrote:
wich2 wrote:Not sold yet.


What are you? A serial argumentalist? I've won the prize, so there! (sticks out tongue). :D

would that be in American dollars or Australian dollars. :wink: :)


It appears that with a whole group not taking the judge's decision as final, I might have to wait some time for the cheque to clear! (You can make it in Aussie dollars as it'll be cheaper for you. :D )
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 2:27 pm

wich2 wrote:
sepiatone wrote:Yes Monte was 6'3"


Then how can the yegg we're discussing be probably shorter, and almost certainly not taller, than Dan Seymour in both scenes, considering Seymour's height next to 5' 8" Bogie?

Image



Gee, I don't know, maybe others can explain. You did know that Bogart was not taller than Lauren Bacall, seen in this still. He like Alan Ladd would stand on platforms and I may be wrong but wore elevator shoes of some sort.

The scene of Blue in the Superman fight scene is a mid -shot camera take. It may be a bit difficult to judge depth and height. I have no problem accepting his 6'3" height in the scene and even more so if that's Jocko Manhoney stunting as Superman.
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1403
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 3:54 pm

It's not just the height that make this contention problematic - although one has to apply several layers of fudge to make that work here.

- The facial features/head shape are not a tight match.

- Blue was doing featured speaking work in TV at this point, not silent stunt gags. The latter clip has a serious table back fall in it, one that it does not make sense to assign to a straight actor in his mid-sixties. Monte Blue was not Dave Sharpe.
Offline
User avatar

missdupont

  • Posts: 2314
  • Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:48 pm
  • Location: California

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 5:37 pm

You're wrong sepiatone. As wich2 says, head shape, hair, height are all wrong. Multiple sources list Blue as 6'2", yet this guy is several inches shorter than the other men, which means they both would have to be at least 6'4" and over to be taller than him. The photo that was posted by wich2 is also from the 1950s and looks nothing like this man, especially the hair.

Richard Roberts on Silent Comedy Mafia says it's not him and once again lists his height as 6'2":

It ain't Monte Blue, Blue was 6'2" or 6'3", Dan Seymour, who wasn't six foot, towers over that guy.
Offline
User avatar

missdupont

  • Posts: 2314
  • Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:48 pm
  • Location: California

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Further proof, here's a photo of Blue at his 1959 wedding. Guess what? Doesn't look anything like the man in the episode.
https://tinyurl.com/k7vsto4
Offline
User avatar

Hamilton's Grandson

  • Posts: 259
  • Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:56 pm
  • Location: Tacoma,WA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Well at least no one else guessed Richard Alexander. I was way off because Richard was 6'4". The wavy hair and moustache is the conundrum for this unknown actor. Could by anyone.
Mark Hamilton (I) is on imdb.com
Joseph Hamilton (I) is on imdb.com
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 7:52 pm

two dissenters. Monte's not in his silent film heyday. He's packed on some pounds. He's in good makeup too. :)
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 8:20 pm

All I can say is that there are a lot of people saying who it isn't, but not many who are saying who it is?

One is easy to do, the other is hard.
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1403
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 8:53 pm

But moving away from a wrong answer is always progress, yes, Donald?

>two dissenters.<

Actually sepia, there are three definite "no" votes in this thread, and several "uncommited." Together, they outweigh the "yes" votes.

-Craig

P.S. - Who has no dog in this hunt, beyond appreciating accuracy.
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 9:01 pm

wich2 wrote:But moving away from a wrong answer is always progress, yes, Donald?

>two dissenters.<

Actually sepia, there are three definite "no" votes in this thread, and several "uncommited." Together, they outweigh the "yes" votes.

-Craig

P.S. - Who has no dog in this hunt, beyond appreciating accuracy.


All I am asking is - "Does ANYONE know - for sure?"
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1403
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 9:13 pm

I think we can safely assume that if anyone reading this thread had such conclusive evidence, they would not be withholding it out of malice?
Offline

PhilipS

  • Posts: 70
  • Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:12 pm
  • Location: Australia

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostThu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 pm

I don't know who it is, but it's definitely not Monte Blue, so add me to the dissenters.
Offline

R Michael Pyle

  • Posts: 1518
  • Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 6:47 am

How about Frank Orth, who it's supposed to be - all along... It's definitely NOT Monte Blue, and if you put in "Frank Orth photos" and just look at what comes up, you'll find that he has enough features facial wise to almost be a Monte Blue replica of sorts at a quick glance - and notice I said quick glance...
Offline

Paul Penna

  • Posts: 507
  • Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:02 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 7:35 am

R Michael Pyle wrote:How about Frank Orth...


He's even less like Frank Orth.
Offline

R Michael Pyle

  • Posts: 1518
  • Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 7:41 am

I'm out.
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 8:40 am

PhilipS wrote:I don't know who it is, but it's definitely not Monte Blue, so add me to the dissenters.


You don't know who it is!, but you're definite it's not Monte Blue Hmm interesting. ..You've been added :wink:
Last edited by sepiatone on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 8:59 am

wich2 wrote:I think we can safely assume that if anyone reading this thread had such conclusive evidence, they would not be withholding it out of malice?


Perhaps the Warner Brothers records for the shoot of the episode would be conclusive evidence. But even that would be meaningless if the change in cast was not notated.
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 9:02 am

R Michael Pyle wrote:How about Frank Orth, who it's supposed to be - all along... It's definitely NOT Monte Blue, and if you put in "Frank Orth photos" and just look at what comes up, you'll find that he has enough features facial wise to almost be a Monte Blue replica of sorts at a quick glance - and notice I said quick glance...


means nothing, Dan Seymour looks like Al Capone but he's not Al Capone.(*I think it was an intentional bit of casting as Seymour is scary as a thug but was a nice guy I've read in real life.)
Last edited by sepiatone on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 9:04 am

Paul Penna wrote:
R Michael Pyle wrote:How about Frank Orth...


He's even less like Frank Orth.


Because he's not Frank Orth. Once again, he's Monte Blue.
Offline

sepiatone

  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm
  • Location: East Coast, USA

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 9:49 am

Here are some cast listings for the episode that I should have originally linked. They all have done what I suspected that is copy one after the other from a prepared cast list. Some sources may not list who plays Al(probably since he doesn't speak).

The Encyclopedia of Superheroes:
https://books.google.com/books?id=dx6hB ... st&f=false

Superman in Action
https://supermaninaction.neocities.org/mindmachine.html

tv.com
http://www.tv.com/shows/adventures-of-s ... ine-90348/

website offers answer on stuntman not that its important to the OP topic but informative
http://thecaveboard.yuku.com/topic/7399 ... N55RW_yuUl
Offline
User avatar

Mike Gebert

Site Admin

  • Posts: 5675
  • Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:23 pm
  • Location: Chicago

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 9:51 am

I'll tell you who it's not-- an uncredited John Wayne.

It's funny how often this kind of thing comes up, and how easily someone who mocks such identifications one day buys them the next. I'm not convinced anybody is anybody without other documentation. It's too easy to see who you think you're seeing in a still or brief clip for that to be conclusive.

If your mother says she doubled for Superman, check it out.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1403
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 11:02 am

sepiatone wrote:website offers answer on stuntman not that its important to the OP topic but informative
http://thecaveboard.yuku.com/topic/7399 ... N55RW_yuUl" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


A surmise from that link:

"The (SUPERMAN) stunt double in 'The Mind Machine' is Dale Van Sickle for sure. Can't name the other two."

Not Mahoney, as posited up thread here.

(Van Sickel = 6' 0" / Blue = 6' 2" or 6' 3")
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2860
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 4:02 pm

I've revised my answer. It wasn't Monte Blue. It was his brother - Mountie Red - who went to Canada in his teens.
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2507
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Silent film star not credited in Superman tv episode

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 9:40 am

Donald Binks wrote:I've revised my answer. It wasn't Monte Blue. It was his brother - Mountie Red - who went to Canada in his teens.


I know Mountie Red. An excellent wine.

Jim
PreviousNext

Return to Talking About Silents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests