when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

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radiotelefonia

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when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostMon Aug 07, 2017 3:13 pm

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earlytalkiebuffRob

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostTue Aug 08, 2017 12:26 pm

Although the Movietone variant is a little shorter and nowhere near as good as the other upload [from a brief look], I certainly welcome the chance to hear the original soundtrack. This is a similar case to Walsh's WHAT PRICE GLORY (1926). My only [minor] grouse is the overlaid translation.
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radiotelefonia

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostTue Aug 08, 2017 1:30 pm

This version is shorter because it was recorded from a PAL broadcast. I threw away that lousy Christopher Calliendo score and reinstated the original soundtrack but my DVD where I preserved got damaged and I can't managed to recover it.
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Big Silent Fan

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostFri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am

Replaced scores, repeated frames of film (sometimes at the wrong location), and improper speed are three items that annoy me.
The last copy of Griffith's "Broken Blossoms" seen years ago had a reimagined orchestra score that did nothing to support the story, often going 'dead silent' for more than ten seconds. Luckily, I had the earlier copy with the organ score.
Looking again today at Hitchcock's recently 'restored' Silent film, "The Ring," there are at least six places where the film splicing was incorrect (they never checked for repeated frames of film). So many restored films from "The Jazz Singer" to "Lalia" all have at least one spot where the film frames repeat.
I finally got to watch the nicely restored copy of Hitchcock's "Champagne" but while all the title cards were newly made (white letters over black), they apparently decided the intertitles should shake slightly when seen. The picture ran perfectly smooth so these shaky titles were intentional.
They did a remarkably good job restoring "The Lodger," proper speed and good score, but some of the other early Hitchcock Silents were projected too fast and included piano scores which didn't follow the story in the film.
Years ago, they restored the Anna May Wong film "Piccadilly," replacing the original score with modern music, hardly appropriate when Su Su did her Oriental dance. The original score (which I have from an original print) contained both sound effects (street noise at the opening credits) and applause to properly match what's seen on the screen. When Su Su dances, it's with Chinese music.
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WaverBoy

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostTue Aug 15, 2017 12:35 pm

Big Silent Fan wrote:Replaced scores, repeated frames of film (sometimes at the wrong location), and improper speed are three items that annoy me.
The last copy of Griffith's "Broken Blossoms" seen years ago had a reimagined orchestra score that did nothing to support the story, often going 'dead silent' for more than ten seconds. Luckily, I had the earlier copy with the organ score.
Looking again today at Hitchcock's recently 'restored' Silent film, "The Ring," there are at least six places where the film splicing was incorrect (they never checked for repeated frames of film). So many restored films from "The Jazz Singer" to "Lalia" all have at least one spot where the film frames repeat.
I finally got to watch the nicely restored copy of Hitchcock's "Champagne" but while all the title cards were newly made (white letters over black), they apparently decided the intertitles should shake slightly when seen. The picture ran perfectly smooth so these shaky titles were intentional.
They did a remarkably good job restoring "The Lodger," proper speed and good score, but some of the other early Hitchcock Silents were projected too fast and included piano scores which didn't follow the story in the film.
Years ago, they restored the Anna May Wong film "Piccadilly," replacing the original score with modern music, hardly appropriate when Su Su did her Oriental dance. The original score (which I have from an original print) contained both sound effects (street noise at the opening credits) and applause to properly match what's seen on the screen. When Su Su dances, it's with Chinese music.


I didn't realize a proper original score with sound effects existed for PICCADILLY. Time for a definitive Blu-ray release!
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Big Silent Fan

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostTue Aug 15, 2017 1:47 pm

WaverBoy wrote:I didn't realize a proper original score with sound effects existed for PICCADILLY. Time for a definitive Blu-ray release!


My original copy (made from a film print) and the 'censored' American copy both have the very same score so I consider it original. Since it's not the same length as the restoration it took some effort on my part to meld the original score onto the restored film.

The American (censored) version changed the titles and scenes during the interracial dancing (a Black and a White dancing together) scene in the bar since this was taboo in America at the time. They also reversed the film so the vehicles would appear to be driving on the right side of the road (it's plain that the signs on the building are backwards).

I acquired the 'censored' copy during an earlier discussion at alt.movies.silent when it's owner didn't believe I had a copy of the uncensored version. It became a 'You show me yours and I'll show you mine' challenge.
We each have both copies today.
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wich2

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostFri Sep 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Big Silent Fan wrote:The last copy of Griffith's "Broken Blossoms" seen years ago had a reimagined orchestra score that did nothing to support the story, often going 'dead silent' for more than ten seconds.


From here, that's not automatically a problem - Downtime in music has a purpose, and can be a very strong moment underlying a motion picture.

(That's one thing I didn't like about Lee Erwin's playing; he sometimes seemed to be afraid of Rests.)

-Craig
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Big Silent Fan

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Re: when a restoration is NOT welcomed...

PostFri Sep 01, 2017 4:23 pm

wich2 wrote:
Big Silent Fan wrote:The last copy of Griffith's "Broken Blossoms" seen years ago had a reimagined orchestra score that did nothing to support the story, often going 'dead silent' for more than ten seconds.


From here, that's not automatically a problem - Downtime in music has a purpose, and can be a very strong moment underlying a motion picture. -Craig


Perhaps, but ten seconds in a film can seem like an eternity.
Then again, ten seconds is nothing compared to what happened in another film. In "The Artist," they decided going dead silent was appropriate for the climax. I doubt anyone other than the purest fan of 'Silent Films' could have preferred silence over an appropriate musical score for so long an interval.
At the most important part of the story, "The Artist" goes dead silent not for ten seconds, but for a full one minute, forty-five seconds! Apparently, we were supposed to hold our breath, waiting to see what happened next.
Most in the audience of modern film goers must have wondered (as I did) if there was something wrong with the theatre sound system?

Still, "The Artist" went on to win, "Best Musical Score" proving that silence is golden.

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