"A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

Open, general discussion of classic sound-era films, personalities and history.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

"A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 10:35 am

This is truly bizarre. I only recently got the Blu-ray, Criterion release of A Hard Day’s Night after having bought a VHS and DVD release in the past.

My first time seeing it was when my mom and I rented it from a local VHS rental shop in 2003. I was 4 years old but my mom remembers the scenes described below very well and we have been really surprised at what we’ve slowly found out. I later bought a VHS in 2009 and thought it was faulty because there were several scenes my mom and I didn’t see in there. I bought a DVD later and the same problem. I thought it might be an alternate version. I buy the Criterion release and the missing scenes are nowhere. I check and find an interview with Richard Lester saying that there were several deleted scenes that were lost. He didn’t seem to think they existed.

She and I have talked again and again about those scenes, so her memory and mine have remained pretty fresh about it. There are several stills of what we saw but they are commonly referred to as publicity stills. They aren’t. It seems that in the part of the film where the Beatles escape outside to the field, they continue running and goofing off until they get to an old abandoned train station. I clearly remember a dolly shot of them running near the tracks, and eventually they start playing a different song. There were shots of them though broken glass, the camera slowly zooming in on Paul and Ringo through the rough glass edges. Ringo drums in some little shack while John and George look cool and interesting. There is a stop motion like shot of them in the middle of the station as they pose for a few seconds. They are then posing differently but in the same framing. They change positions several times. They cut the poses to match with the tempo of the song so you see them move around the same landscape. It was really abstract and wonderful.

I had no idea how valuable these scenes were because we were watching the film for the first time and couldn't compare it to anything. That was so long ago and the rental shop has closed years ago. I really feel awful about this because nobody seems to have seen it this way. My thinking is that this unlabeled VHS that we rented years ago was bought by the rental shop from somebody who transferred it from their 16mm or 35mm source. The only other possibility is that Lester doesn’t want the film released this way and I saw a rare but available VHS copy that wasn’t authorized by the director. If any body has seen this then that would probably be the case. Please, if anybody knows what I’m talking about let me know. Here are some stills from what we saw. They are referred to as publicity stills but they must have been filming because these consist of some of what we saw.

Image

Image
Image
The broken glass.
Image
This is where their poses change.
Image
Image
This shot was great in motion.
Image
The shot of them running. This is what I remember really clearly
Last edited by luciano on Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:52 am, edited 15 times in total.
Offline
User avatar

Mike Gebert

Site Admin

  • Posts: 5681
  • Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:23 pm
  • Location: Chicago

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 11:20 am

So I looked up what the running time of Criterion's edition is: 87 minutes.*

And then I looked up Bosley Crowther's original review ("Sure, the frequent and brazen "yah-yah-yahing" of the fellows when they break into song may be grating"). And the running time in 1964 was... 87 minutes.

I think memory is likely inserting things you've seen elsewhere into the film for you.

* Admittedly, the listing could be wrong. Maybe someone can confirm the running time from the actual edition.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 12:04 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:So I looked up what the running time of Criterion's edition is: 87 minutes.*

And then I looked up Bosley Crowther's original review ("Sure, the frequent and brazen "yah-yah-yahing" of the fellows when they break into song may be grating"). And the running time in 1964 was... 87 minutes.

I think memory is likely inserting things you've seen elsewhere into the film for you.

* Admittedly, the listing could be wrong. Maybe someone can confirm the running time from the actual edition.


I am trying to find the interview with Lester, however when he discussed any lost footage he was speaking of deleted scenes that weren't included in the final version. There is nothing in terms of a theatrical release that would give a clue then.
For any further proof, David Hurn who worked for Magnum Photos and took some of these photographs, made specific comments about 'Dick Lester' or Richard Lester's direction for the scenes with broken glass. Here is an excerpt from this interview:
http://www.beatlesarchive.net/the-beatl ... -hurn.html
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2513
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 12:30 pm

I saw it on its original release 100 years ago (it was a silent back then!), and I have the DVD as well. Those scenes you mention were not in either the version released to theatres nor the version for DVD release.

They are almost certainly outtakes or cutting-room removals. In other words, the scenes were shot, but not included in any of the versions of the film for release.

They may have been used to make up a music video after the band broke up (music videos didn't become "normal" practice until the 1970s). Outtakes and deleted scenes may have been included in some DVD versions.

I also have the large paperback book of the film at home. I'll try to remember to check it out if no one else remembers your scenes before I get home.

Incidentally, from your description, I would guess the scenes come on the heels of "Can't Buy Me Love".

Meanwhile, see the recent thread in which I flail around desperately remembering W.C. Fields' toothbrush scene as it never happened!

Jim
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Jim Roots wrote:Incidentally, from your description, I would guess the scenes come on the heels of "Can't Buy Me Love".
Jim


Well if it was silent then how'd you know the song? :D Ha, any way my memory tells me it came after they run outside with that great sequence where they are jumping in slow motion. Which as you say is set to "Can't Buy Me Love". I believe these missing scenes then transitioned into a song that is on the album A Hard Days Night, but not in the film, called "I'll Cry Instead". I remember watching it as a kid in that hotel room, my feet tapping as their positions changed to the rhythm of that song. My mom remembers it to be "I'll Cry Instead" as well.
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2513
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 6:16 pm

luciano wrote:
Jim Roots wrote:Incidentally, from your description, I would guess the scenes come on the heels of "Can't Buy Me Love".
Jim


Well if it was silent then how'd you know the song? :D Ha, any way my memory tells me it came after they run outside with that great sequence where they are jumping in slow motion. Which as you say is set to "Can't Buy Me Love". I believe these missing scenes then transitioned into a song that is on the album A Hard Days Night, but not in the film, called "I'll Cry Instead". I remember watching it as a kid in that hotel room, my feet tapping as their positions changed to the rhythm of that song. My mom remembers it to be "I'll Cry Instead" as well.


"I'll Cry Instead" is one of my all-time favourite songs and I still run it in my head at least once every week. It was definitely on the LP but equally definitely not in the movie. ("Can't Buy Me Love" runs in my head at least three times every week. I hardly have any time or headspace left over for "A Hard Day's Night" itself to run, but it fills in the gaps, sorta like a TV ad.)

Jim
Offline
User avatar

LouieD

  • Posts: 1529
  • Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 12:05 am

These "photo scenes" never existed. Keep dreaming and read some Lewisohn.
Offline
User avatar

Mike Gebert

Site Admin

  • Posts: 5681
  • Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:23 pm
  • Location: Chicago

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 12:53 am

Where's the part where John Wayne 20 years older than he was at the time is hanging around the set?
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 7:01 am

I'll definitely try Lewisohn, just as I've happily delved into the Anthology, or Dezo Hoffman's With the Beatles. I'm not asking these questions because I am ignorant to the Beatles. I ask these questions because I love the Beatles.

We watched this quite a while ago, yes. However my mom, and two of my cousins were there as well. All of us remember the film this way. If there was no proof that these scenes were being filmed then I would gladly leave it alone. However comments from David Hurn, the photographer who was on set, tell a different story. It seems from his comments that they were filming.
Preservation is not something you can tackle at any time. If there is something out there that is rare and at risk of decomposing, then I would love to help resurrect that in any way I can. Is it unlikely? Sure. If the moderator wants to remove the post I understand.
Offline
User avatar

Mike Gebert

Site Admin

  • Posts: 5681
  • Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:23 pm
  • Location: Chicago

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 9:31 am

There's no reason to remove the post.

I believe you that things may have been shot-- I suspect any movie that is 87 minutes has been cut down to bare bones; no one sets out to film just 87 minutes, because you have no margin. But the evidence suggests you saw them somewhere else.

As for people coming over from another site to snark at NitrateVille late at night, well, we all have quirky opinions and obsessions, and the spirit of NitrateVille, at least, is to be tolerant and welcoming to all. Can't speak for other places.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 9:59 am

Mike Gebert wrote:There's no reason to remove the post.

I believe you that things may have been shot-- I suspect any movie that is 87 minutes has been cut down to bare bones; no one sets out to film just 87 minutes, because you have no margin. But the evidence suggests you saw them somewhere else.


It just seemed the post was going in circles, so I thought removal would stop anymore time wasting. Aside from that, I think the question should now be if these outtakes or deleted scenes were edited into something else later on, as Jim Roots mentioned. Maybe a re-release, or something related to A Hard Days Night would contain something similar. Hope someone out there recognizes something.
Offline
User avatar

Jim Roots

  • Posts: 2513
  • Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm
  • Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 12:58 pm

As I mentioned, I have an oversized paperback (like our beloved old Citadel "The Films of ..." books) of the movie, published in 1977/78 by Penguin in the civilized world and by Chelsea in the USA. It has the entire shooting script plus hundreds of frame captures, at least three for every page (and sometimes the page may have only two sentences of dialogue). These "broken glass" shots are not in either the photos or the script.

To be fair, the publication was obviously assembled after the film was distributed, so the editor may have simply deleted anything that didn't show up in the finished film.

I wonder if Donald Binks saw it in Australia on its original release and can recall these scenes appearing in the kangaroo version?

Jim
Offline
User avatar

Donald Binks

  • Posts: 2864
  • Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 am
  • Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 1:42 pm

Jim Roots wrote:I wonder if Donald Binks saw it in Australia on its original release and can recall these scenes appearing in the kangaroo version?
Jim


I was actually a fan of the "Beatles" back in the '60's. (shock, horror) - but apart from my memories of not hearing them at their concert at "Festival Hall" (a house of stoush) due to girls screaming, I have little memory of seeing this fillum. I do though have a copy of it somewhere and must dig it out and have a watch of it. Perhaps there is a also scene in it where a toothbrush is utilised?
Regards from
Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
she won't polish them..."You know what she's like." So I said:..."
Offline
User avatar

Mike Gebert

Site Admin

  • Posts: 5681
  • Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:23 pm
  • Location: Chicago

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSat Mar 11, 2017 1:47 pm

They're very clean.
“Sentimentality is when it doesn't come off—when it does, you get a true expression of life's sorrows.” —Alain-Fournier
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1238
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 5:19 am

It couldn't have been a "TV version"? One of those editions made for TV that reinsert some footage to make up for other moments that had to be deleted to pass the rating?
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline

wich2

  • Posts: 1406
  • Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:11 am

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 12:39 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:They're very clean.


And they're king mixers!
Offline
User avatar

BrianG

  • Posts: 132
  • Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:07 pm
  • Location: New Jersey

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 1:55 pm

I saw the movie on the Steel Pier in Atlantic City, NJ in the summer of 1964, but since I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, I wouldn't remember if any scenes were deleted from the TCM airings I've seen in recent years. It is my favorite, and only, Beatle's music CD that I own.
Offline

John Martinez

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:07 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 6:27 pm

I had a 1984 VHS of "A Hard Day's Night" from MPI Video that included a prologue that Universal created and tacked on to the film when they re-released it theatrically in the early 1980s. The prologue was the song "I'll Cry Instead" accompanying a montage of stills from the movie. I remember that although the prologue montage was all stills, there were some creative "animated" combinations of sequential or near sequential photos during it. Could this prologue be what you are remembering from that first VHS tape that you saw?

Apparently that prologue was removed and never used on subsequent home video releases: https://goo.gl/Jv0Jbv
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 7:11 pm

John Martinez wrote:I had a 1984 VHS of "A Hard Day's Night" from MPI Video that included a prologue that Universal created and tacked on to the film when they re-released it theatrically in the early 1980s. The prologue was the song "I'll Cry Instead" accompanying a montage of stills from the movie. I remember that although the prologue montage was all stills, there were some creative "animated" combinations of sequential or near sequential photos during it. Could this prologue be what you are remembering from that first VHS tape that you saw?

Apparently that prologue was removed and never used on subsequent home video releases: https://goo.gl/Jv0Jbv

Yes I'm familiar with it. In fact it was on the second release I bought when I was about 7 ears old. It was done by Walter Shenson for the 1981 re-release as I recall. Even thought it is similar in many ways, it still doesn't ring any bells.
Offline

CultTVman

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:46 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 8:12 pm

This is one of those films that I have followed over the years. I've read about everything I could find about it. I've seen it in almost all its variations except the original theatrical release (I was 2 when it came out.)

The only known outtake is from the end of the movie when the Beatles are playing You Can't Do That. The footage was broadcast on The Ed Sullivan Show in 1964 along with an interview conducted by Ed in England when visiting the set of the movie. The outtake was included in the 1995 documentary about the film, hosted by Phil Collins. You can find the clip on YouTube.

There is also about 4 or 5 minutes of behind the scenes footage showing Richard Lester directing the Beatles at the train station and a few other sequences. You can also find this on YouTube.

The early 80's theatrical reissue added the I'll Cry Instead photo montage to the start of the movie. This was included in the early VHS releases.

In the mid-90s, both A Hard Days Night and Help were restored from the original negatives by Ron Furmanek. Those restorations were first broadcast by AMC as part of their film preservation drive. Miramax released the movie theatrically in 2000 followed by a deluxe DVD release. Despite a couple hours of bonus material, there are not outtakes included. An HD digital restoration was finally released a couple years ago on blue ray, but no outtakes were included there either.

There have been plenty of interviews over the years with producer Walter Shenson and director Richard Lester. They've been asked about outtakes and they are not aware of any existing. In the Hard Days Night photo/script book, Lester specifically says they would have been destroyed.

Its safe to say that nothing else is available, other than the behind the scenes footage and the clip of You Can't Do That. We can always hope that something will turn up, but it is unlikely. They've got the original negative, but that is it.

Now, don't get me started about the aspect ratio and cropping.

Steve
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 10:51 pm

CultTVman wrote:In the mid-90s, both A Hard Days Night and Help were restored from the original negatives by Ron Furmanek. Those restorations were first broadcast by AMC as part of their film preservation drive. Miramax released the movie theatrically in 2000 followed by a deluxe DVD release. Despite a couple hours of bonus material, there are not outtakes included. An HD digital restoration was finally released a couple years ago on blue ray, but no outtakes were included there either.

There have been plenty of interviews over the years with producer Walter Shenson and director Richard Lester. They've been asked about outtakes and they are not aware of any existing. In the Hard Days Night photo/script book, Lester specifically says they would have been destroyed.

Its safe to say that nothing else is available, other than the behind the scenes footage and the clip of You Can't Do That. We can always hope that something will turn up, but it is unlikely. They've got the original negative, but that is it.

Now, don't get me started about the aspect ratio and cropping.

Steve


Yes that is the harsh reality. That's why it's very strange for me, feeling like a fool even bringing these scenes up. Everyone tends to laugh in our face about it. I can't imagine any more footage being out there, and I can't imagine more capable hands doing the restoration. Aspect ratio aside, it is some of the best restoration work I've seen (although the release of The General restored from the negative may change that). But we saw what we saw, and I can't deny that. So it's very scary to have seen something, that you and your family members saw and remember vividly, with it nowhere to be found. I feel like an audience member from London After Midnight transported into the present age :lol: I guess it's just something I'll have to live with.
Offline
User avatar

Spiny Norman

  • Posts: 1238
  • Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:21 am

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes?

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 7:19 am

Well, would Shenson and Lester necessarily be aware of it if there had been any TV version? Would that be fully under their control?
This is nøt å signåture.™
Offline
User avatar

Zool

  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 5:20 pm
  • Location: It took a day to build this city

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostWed Mar 15, 2017 1:28 am

LouieD wrote:These "photo scenes" never existed. Keep dreaming and read some Lewisohn.


Wow you're pretty rude and condescending.
"Are we ourselves, and do we really know?"


George O'Brien.net
Offline
User avatar

LouieD

  • Posts: 1529
  • Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostThu Mar 16, 2017 12:11 am

Zool wrote:
LouieD wrote:These "photo scenes" never existed. Keep dreaming and read some Lewisohn.


Wow you're pretty rude and condescending.


Welcome to film reality.
Offline
User avatar

luciano

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostThu Mar 16, 2017 6:35 am

"Blue meanies"
Offline
User avatar

Zool

  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 5:20 pm
  • Location: It took a day to build this city

Re: "A Hard Days Night" Deleted Scenes!

PostFri Mar 17, 2017 4:53 pm

LouieD wrote:
Zool wrote:
LouieD wrote:These "photo scenes" never existed. Keep dreaming and read some Lewisohn.


Wow you're pretty rude and condescending.


Welcome to film reality.


More like your alternate reality.
"Are we ourselves, and do we really know?"


George O'Brien.net

Return to Talking About Talkies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: earlytalkiebuffRob and 9 guests