# 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

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Silencebound

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# 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSat Nov 05, 2016 7:07 pm

The Thomas Ince's 1911 I.M.P. lost short film classic

========= PICTURELAND ==========

( U.S.A. - 1911 - Silent ) ( Music supplied )

Finally at last that you all have been waiting for ! Here's your viewing treasure ever lodged in this very site via from YouTube which I've completed restoring and uploaded the 17 mins and 46 second magic video ever witness at the great 1911 Thomas Ince I.M.P. short film classic - PICTURELAND. Took me nearly a year and an half to build the impossible magic presentation ever laid on the big silver screen that was lost for around 105 years - until now. Well, let's try to see it on your big LCD TV screen as please type 'Lost 35mm' in the search icon within YouTube site that connects thru your Smart TV for the better entertainment presentation rather than viewing it on your small computer, for instance.
Now, to have done this terribly many difficult tasks on scanning the 14,633 frames, cropping the same numbers of frames and restoring almost all the frames ( few is left passed over which is not worth to restore when only a very tinyest black spot around the frame ). Only few frames is very difficult to restore but I've succeed two frames which one badly-damaged image took me five hours to remove out the unwelcomed scratches and unremovable dirts, etc, off from the scanned 35mm film frame but restored it fully with terrific Windows Paint software. That has help me to go thru like hell but it's worth it ! Maybe my external information is about to writing on but let's leave that to you, my viewers, to give me any impressions or possibly scathing comments at this wonderful masterpiece right here as I'm sitting back and enjoying yourselves.



Okay, by the way, please kindly support me by giving money to me at my new project on RetroScan Universal Scanner from Kickstarter - Please click https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/44 ... al-scanner" target="_blank
Well, the funding campaign is slowly as I am very disappointing. Please give me now as this film is being given to you in a big return for free. You, the Kickstarter backers, will be rewarded. Kickstarter funding will end on 30th November, 2016. Pleeze help me ! :(
Last edited by Silencebound on Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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boblipton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 5:45 am

Great work, Robert! I hope this will encourage more people to chip in to help you buy a better scanner! (hint: it's in SILENT NEWS) As for me, I feel rewarded already by this magnificent gift.

Bob
To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
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eidoloscope

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 7:51 am

Let me add my CONGRATULATIONS for a job well done! The transfer to digital is sharp and steady, and your transfer rate is just right. In light of the fact that this reel of nitrate has likely sat in its can, unprojected, for over a century, the results are amazing.

Now that the work is complete, a full cast list of the principal actors (using the versions of their names found in the IMP Company group photo reproduced in an earlier thread) is possible:

Isabel Rae (Rosita) - sometimes spelled "Rea"
King Baggot (Pablo)
W. R. Dailey? (The Tourist)
Anita Hendrie (Rosita's Mother) - this actress was also known as Mrs. David Miles
W. E. Shea (Rosita's Father) - this actor's name appears in other sources as William Shay
David Miles (Priest)
Joseph Smiley (Director)

I "question mark" W. R. Dailey as The Tourist because, as clear as the frames are of this character, I am not 100% certain of my ID. Based on the IMP Company photo, it is a best guess.

Finally - and for the umpteenth time - this is NOT a Thomas Ince film. For reasons laid out in previous threads, and given Smiley's unmistakable appearance in the opening and closing shots of the company arriving at and departing from the filming location (he is the large, grey-haired man in the dark jacket and light trousers), but not acting as a character in the story itself, I am even more certain than before that this is a Joseph Smiley-directed release. There is simply no evidence whatsoever of Ince's involvement in this film, either on screen or in the (admittedly scant) surviving paper documentation; claiming otherwise would seem to be wishful thinking on the part of some earlier researcher.

That being said, this is a wonderful find that fills a big gap in the history of an important early American film company. Congratulations again on seeing this project through to a happy conclusion!
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alvisrocks

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 12:28 pm

Great job and I hope you get the scanner and the much deserved recognition you deserve for your dedication and incredibly hard work. :D

Still some unanswered questions about how they got the credits so wrong, but then again I supposed it should just be accepted that such information is easily distorted, especially when it is crowd-sourced, and when it is from so long ago.

The performances seem remarkably modern, without too much over-exaggeration that later silents employed in terms of gestures and facial expressions. You can clearly see that the actors were more than comfortable in their roles and had probably worked with each other on stage etc over the years.

Looking forward to more from you, and I will be sure to pass the word on about this so you can get your scanner!
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 pm

Thanks to you first three members ! Also again thanks are indeed due to boblipton for adjustment the film credits at IMDB. I have also update a few until IMDB approves it, but few more to go as I'll do it with a new frame photo to be added there as well. I will find the exact right name of The Tourist, but I think that he's George L. Tucker. ( his all-IMP 1911 photo does show him at top left corner position ) :?
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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boblipton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 4:10 pm

Flattery is always welcome -- although it would be even more flattering if you upvoted my review! How did you know I submitted cast changes?

Bob
To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
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oldposterho

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 5:06 pm

What a strange and casually tossed out framing device for the film. It makes me wonder if this was going to be a series of these sorts of things with the adventures of the IMP company or if there must have been some sort of built in awareness about having the film company portrayed in and out of character? In this century it's hard to figure out just how audiences of the day would take to such a self-reflexive presentation. Surely this must be one of the earlier attempts at including the filmmakers in their own film?

Kudos to SB for his meticulous transfer. It seems unlikely that it has looked better, even in 1911.
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eidoloscope

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 5:13 pm

I think you're right, Silencebound - the more I compare the film with the IMP group photo, it looks like the Tourist is played by George Loane Tucker. Bravo! Now, if we can only get Mary Pickford out of the IMDB record....
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boblipton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 5:19 pm

eidoloscope wrote:I think you're right, Silencebound - the more I compare the film with the IMP group photo, it looks like the Tourist is played by George Loane Tucker. Bravo! Now, if we can only get Mary Pickford out of the IMDB record....


It's always a megilla getting them to delete something, particularly once it gets deep into the literature -- all the reference books refer to each other, after all. However, given that we finally got Nita Naldi off the credits for The Pleasure Garden, we need to overwhelm them with volume!

Given that both reviews now note that it's Isabel Rea and not Little Mary, it's a start.

Bob
To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
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Rick Lanham

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 9:07 pm

Congratulations Robert! I hope that more will contribute to your KickStarter fundraiser.

Rick
“The past is never dead. It's not even past” - Faulkner.
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Nov 06, 2016 9:51 pm

Finally revealed who is that 'The Tourist' character who appeared in this film as he wooing at Rosita, out of Pablo's sight. He's GEORGE LOANE TUCKER ! Please notice at his 1915 photo below :-

Image

George Loane Tucker ( 1880 - 1921 ) was just exact 30 years old when he starred in "Pictureland" - no mistake, preciously. Well, are we ready to fully remove Mary Pickford off from the film credit of "Pictureland" at IMDB ? Yet, I've tried to remove her name off from it but seemingly was sorta a bit stucked. :( As then I will add Tucker's name in IMDB after when finishing my post here.

I presumably guess that eidoloscope was right, as the in-screen film star Joseph Smiley is probably the real film director of the IMP entry. But I needs a bit more positive evidence to check him out thru so then I might will modify the opening text unless absolutely necessary. :)
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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostMon Nov 07, 2016 1:47 pm

I've just added George Loane Tucker to the cast. All of the changes have gone through except for Mr. Tucker and the Pickford-Rea switch. This last will take some time and further nudging by other hands.

Bog
To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
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boblipton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostMon Nov 07, 2016 5:31 pm

Isabel Rea has been added as "Rosita" in the cast list, but Miss Pickford remains as "Rosita".
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Marr&Colton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostThu Nov 10, 2016 4:10 pm

Interesting, sharp transfer. Looks great.....

Some suggestions:

1. Would look much better if aperture is masked off so we don't see sprockets or parts of adjacent frames over frame lines.
2. Musical accompaniment starts out very good with piano but then gets off the track with inappropriate talk and other music that doesn't go with the era or the action.

While these films deserve preservation, not much happens on this reel.....
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostMon Nov 14, 2016 6:35 pm

No. Too many 'inner picture' everywhere out there but my frame version is to be remaining the same due to actual loosing frames all the way down when running the film so I have to put the 100% whole frame on display with part of sprocket holes partially exposed as that it's my picture style. :)
Yes. While placed all the scene clips to YouTube, I was restricted to add the clips in the YT's Video Editor that allows up to twenty clips to be saved at once. If overpassed the excessive number of clips, say about 23 or 27 clips, then YouTube site won't save it. The 31-scene-cuts roll was uploaded to YT directly from my computer as it was unexpectedly added up about 5 seconds long therefore the music tracks is not being synchronized well. :(
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostThu Nov 17, 2016 7:37 am

It's passed twelve days and nobody gives me the supporting helm to let me to purchase the RetroScan scanner after I've got only six backers out of 460+ hits at this very page. I am very disappointed dispute there's over 800 hits at 'Silent News' of the column titled "Kickstarter : Please help me to buy RetroScan scanner", as I simple don't understand why that no one wants to help me. Now, I have blocked the film "Pictureland" off from this page and replaced with my advertised Kickstarter pledging campaign until at end of this month. If no more new backers is allocated to support me, then I will terminate my position to continue the scanning task of any further lost films/fragments after done everything from scratch to completion of the film "Pictureland" for over one and an half year. :(
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSat Nov 19, 2016 4:21 pm

I have added a new reward at Kickstarter :- Great opportunity to get a 1080p video presentation of "Pictureland" and the other project that still showing at YouTube by me is "Les Suicides Par Persuasion". The advertising message is :-

1080p DVD-R disc of "Pictureland".

"As above of the reward, you will get not just one short BUT two short films in 'complete' version of "Pictureland" and "Les Suicides Par Persuasion" being recorded in 1080p video presentation on a single DVD-R disc. Very rare opportunity item !!"

As even no backers even wanting it so I'm wondering why. Well, to remaining you all, this special gift will close on 30th November, 2016 on the final day of Kickstarter Campaign. Just click this URL :- https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/44 ... al-scanner" target="_blank - So please be very careful. :o
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostWed Nov 23, 2016 5:19 pm

It's six days remaining as I only have seven backers so far with me. Please support me as otherwise "Pictureland" will not be returned back here for good. Please help me ! :(
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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Marr&Colton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostFri Nov 25, 2016 7:39 am

Sorry you are having trouble getting backers.

You stated a DVD-R you are offering is recorded from 1080p. DVD-R only supports 480p so the copy will only be as good as 480p.


On the showing of the sprockets in your transfers---if someone wants to show them to others either on a big screen
TV or video projection, those sprockets are very annoying. They should really be masked out so the picture is as
would have been shown in the silent days.

From an archival and presentation standpoint, showing sprockets is never done by any of the preservation houses.
This may be your "style" but you have to be considerate of the viewer. How would you like to go into a theatre and see
a movie with the sprockets projected on the screen with the picture? This was never done in the history of film for this reason. The picture quality is all the proof you need---not the frame lines and sprockets.
Last edited by Marr&Colton on Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Silencebound

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostFri Nov 25, 2016 4:54 pm

The DVD-R copy will be exact the same as Blu-ray, simple because the 1080p video resolution to be supplied on it with less than 40 minutes maximum allowance per 4.7GB disk. "Pictureland" provides bit over 2GB of video that it was uploaded to YT, and "Les Suicides Par Persuasion" is 1.6GB, as I will get about 3GB of both films on DVD-R disk. Sprockets are there to gives the exact proof that it is actually came from the 35mm film print, as if the film is 'within frame picture' then it would have let the viewers guessing whether if it was from either 16mm or 28mm and as well 35mm prints. The four-holes-per-side sprockets definite meaning it is a 35mm print - no question asked. By the other hand, you should see the wide-shot exterior scene with Rosita's parents' old Cuban house which does show the upper area of her house at the top of the roof with sky shown here. If 'zoom-in' picture then you won't see the whole structure of the house, for instance . . . It's my pictorial style to stay that way. :?

Image

Get it ? By the way, if I loses the funding scheme, then I will redo the application for re-funding if possible but I think that it might be not as there's over 1,100 hits at the other column "Silent News" here but now have only nine backers when I'm typing this message . . .
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostThu Dec 01, 2016 2:52 am

My application for the funding by Kickstarter was unsuccessful. Well, many thanks to ten backers who has supported me thru the pledging ordeal for over a month until 30th November, 2016. Now, the # 23 L35NFF entry was omitted by me and will not resume here as it is fully locked until I get the sufficient funding from Nitrateville members and other sources. Thank you very much for your positive understanding. :(
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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Mark Zimmer

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostMon Feb 06, 2017 2:22 pm

I sympathize; we tried to do a similar GoFundMe fundraiser at The Unheard Beethoven to upgrade our sound samples we use to synthesize unrecorded/unpublished Beethoven compositions, and we got a whopping 1 contribution. We offered a variety of premiums too, but apparently not enough to generate a willingness to contribute. At least through GoFundMe you still get whatever's contributed, even if you don't meet the goal.
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boblipton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 3:26 pm

I checked today, as I have been doing occasionally since I submitted the credit change. Miss Pickford is no longer in the cast list.

Bob
To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero
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David Denton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 6:52 pm

Unfortunately it credits William Shea instead of William E. Shay. William Shea was a Vitagraph player. Shay worked at IMP.
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boblipton

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Re: # 23 - Lost 35mm Nitrate Film FOUND !

PostMon Apr 10, 2017 4:50 am

David Denton wrote:Unfortunately it credits William Shea instead of William E. Shay. William Shea was a Vitagraph player. Shay worked at IMP.


Gaah. It never ends, does it?

Unfortunately, the film having been taken down, I can no longer look at it to verify, which means I cannot in good conscience offer the change to Nitrateville so they can ignore it for five months.

Bob
To remain ignorant of what occurred before before you were born is to remain forever a child.
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero

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