Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

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Silencebound

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Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

PostSat Oct 11, 2014 3:07 am

Found in Germany and came to my office is this wonderful 35mm roll of an early 1900's melodrama film entry. Probably being filmed in Charles Pathe's Studios in France ( looks exactly like that ) depicting about a couple having quarrelsome incident during the 1700's era with nice-dressed costume and the studio background. The two cutted-out rolls, now reconstructed by me, have hand-coloured stencil being painted on the light-pink emulsion film. So please kindly ID these actors if you have good chance to recognize them. Hey, doctor-kiss, can you find out who they is and what is the year ?? :?

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Now I'm currently scanning this fragment for my 19th film project as it's not finished yet. But it would be more helpful if someone could ID them much earlier with the title and year of production then I can do to upload the finished # 19 film with the corrected stars' names and the year of production, therefore I won't have it being changed it all over again for positive correction like that I've done at # 16 film. :shock:
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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doctor-kiss

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Re: Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

PostWed Oct 29, 2014 2:08 pm

Apologies for the slow reply, as I've hardly been online during the past three weeks and am seeing this (and your fully scanned YouTube version of it) for the first time today.

I can't explain the precise numerical codes that you found on the emulsion, but the style of the Pathé name in the film margin is pretty diagnostic of the approximate date - specifically, early 1912 to early 1914.

Prior to 1905, there tends to be no brand identification in the margins of Pathé films (as seen with LES HARRY-ALASKA AU RESTAURANT CHINOIS). From 1905 to late 1911, a bold stencil-style font was used. Then, from early 1912 to early 1914, the narrow italic font seen in this fragment was employed:

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In the Spring of 1914, the style changed again, to the non-italic font seen in the margins of LES SUICIDÉS PAR PERSUASION.

I've never encountered this particular style outside of the 1912 to 1914 period, meaning that could be a fragment of either a short or perhaps of something a bit longer. I'll take a look through some sources and see what I can turn up; but, of course, the absence of any intertitles and the fact that we're only seeing a single set here, may make things a tad trickier than with the other Pathé movies you've found recently!
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Spiny Norman

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Re: Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

PostWed Oct 29, 2014 2:41 pm

This is fascinating. I have no clue what it could be (possibly something Shakespeare-inspired?) but I just wanted to post my praise for all this effort.
This is nøt å signåture.™
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Silencebound

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Re: Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

PostWed Oct 29, 2014 6:48 pm

D-k, again as always, many thanks for the Pathe emulsion information. I'm now studying about this subject to assist me throughfully for the better reference possible in the future. Must be bit hard-to-believe to noted that the # 19 film entry was produced between 1912-1914 although it is hand-coloured stencil on emulsion that was usually done during early 1900's by Pathe's artist women. But why hand-coloured on the # 19 fragment that produced around 1912-1914, dispute it was filmed by a very-static camera - Doesn't looks like it was filmed in 1912, 1913 and or either 1914 ?!? As I glimpsed to find out why that the 'almost-perfectly' 2-colour Technicolor film marked with italic letters inprinted on at the edge of the Pathe film of a wood branch with the two birds on it, that you uploaded several small pixs shown above ? :?
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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doctor-kiss

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Re: Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

PostWed Oct 29, 2014 7:23 pm

The coloring here is so-called 'Pathécolor' (not to be confused with later processes bearing the same name), applied using a stencil... which is why it's so precise compared to, for example, pre-1905 hand-coloring. The color palette in this fragment is also quite typical for Pathécolor of the early 1910s; see for example some frame enlargements from L'ÉTOILE DU GENIE (May 1914, and employing yet another kind of edge code that followed after this italic style) at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nfig/sets/72157633432633988/

This fragment is surely from one of Pathé's "scènes historiques", of which around two were released every month throughout 1912 and 1913, invariably with stencil coloring and generally with a length of 300 metres / 1000ft or more. The static camera is typical for the genre, with a certain deliberate theatrical style underlining the 'seriousness' of the enterprise.

Whereas there's a fast (almost manic) pace throughout an earlier short like LES HARRY-ALASKA AU RESTAURANT CHINOIS, because the performers know they have to cram a lot into a very short amount of film... in this fragment, by contrast, the action is slow and deliberate --- the pair really achieve very little in the space of 38 seconds! --- which again indicates that it's part of some longer, less frantic piece of filmmaking.

Figuring out precisely which 1912/13 production this might be... may well prove to require a slower, less frantic pace too, I suspect!
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Silencebound

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Re: Please ID this new-founded 1900 fragment

PostFri Oct 31, 2014 6:34 pm

Good to note that about the stencil-era films from 1910's and beyond, but working on stenciling all the 3x reels of 'L'Etoile du Genie' ( it's 1060m footage, according from Imdb :- "The Star of Genius ") was so monotonous thing to be done ! Probably bit over 30 minutes' worth of hand-coloured celluloid entertainment. I've search for that film "L'Etoile du Genie" but only several frames to be found at Flickr.com - Do you know where is the complete footage version that we can view it ? As YouTube didn't have it came out yet. I would have love to scan it all ( three reels ! ) sometime if it is still remaining a 'lost' film. Well, I have to go back to my computer work as my 20th film fragment is almost done and will be released here due later tonight, hopefully . . . :)
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.

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