PRESERVE WHAT?

Talk about the work of collecting, restoring and preserving our film heritage here.
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Bor Enots

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PRESERVE WHAT?

PostWed Dec 24, 2014 11:57 am

Okay, this is not a drill. Not an academic exercise. If you care to participate: Please, give me some titles or some performers that you would like to see preserved. Need to stay mostly in the nitrate era, primarily American, preferably stay away from big studios, and should be something worth preserving (which is open to broad interpretation). I love lists: Title, studio, year, star. Giving a brief reason works too. If you know me then you know I can make some (much) of this happen. So I would really like your input... and a big "bah humbug" to those of you that may choose to post only to bash or be negative.
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Silencebound

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostWed Dec 24, 2014 3:47 pm

Only if that thing that badly needing to be discovered, first of usually way, there comes untitled and quite unknown films especially fragments versions, that has done the unexpectedly awareness of wide unknown performers like Louis Simon and Frank Otto, el at . . . for us to learning who is that performers so we can giving the in-depth information of their profiles, etc. Without the fragments, then we exact never who is that high-profile stars like Akira Hasegawa.
I just want to and have to show and tell everybody absolutely NOTHING but only the truth.
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mwalls

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostWed Dec 24, 2014 7:50 pm

Forgive me if this film is commercially available, but to the best of my knowledge it is not. I would like to suggest "Forbidden Paradise", the 1924 silent film starring Pola Negri and directed by Ernest Lubitsch. My understanding is that a print exists at MoMA and that the GEH has an incomplete print. In addition to Pola Negri (whose ratio of lost films is way too high), this purportedly has the second film appearance of Clark Gable.
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milefilms

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostWed Dec 24, 2014 7:54 pm

Lady of the Pavements merging the film material with the Vitaphone discs at GEH and UCLA.
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missdupont

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostThu Dec 25, 2014 1:39 pm

Wanda Wiley. Shirley Mason. Viola Dana. Edna Murphy. Jack Pickford. John Bowers. House Peters.
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Donald Binks

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostThu Dec 25, 2014 2:36 pm

A lot of the problem in preserving films revolves around the lack of interest in them by the general public. Whilst a lot of us would love to see just about every old film preserved - it all costs money, and unless a buck can be made out of - who is interested in doing all the work?

I only offer this as a suggestion - so shoot me down in flames if I am barking up the wrong tree, but it seems to me that perhaps today's audiences could be interested in the musical films from 1929-30 that were made in colour? I know my son always tells me that if I put a film on for him to watch - to make sure it is in colour.

Perhaps a focus could be made on preserving and restoring this genre of films with a particular focus on getting the colour right. (A lot of the colour seems faded or not as it should be in prints I have seen).

I also believe that where the Vitaphone discs exist - this material lends more to being enhanced than does a Movietone soundtrack.

If then, putting out these old colour films garners some commercial success; the money so earned could be used to preserve other films?
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Donald Binks

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Bor Enots

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostThu Dec 25, 2014 5:00 pm

missdupont - Thank you, EXACTLY what I was looking for in a reply.
DonaldBinks - Can't do color (at least photo-chemically). I should have put that in my request.
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greta de groat

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostThu Dec 25, 2014 5:28 pm

Pauline Frederick. Only 11 surviving silents, four of which are unpreserved nitrate prints and one more which is 28 mm. Her first three talkies are lost too, though it looks like the Vitaphone discs survive. Gory details can be found here: http://web.stanford.edu/~gdegroat/PF/filmography.htm

greta
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David Denton

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostThu Dec 25, 2014 8:34 pm

Rob,

I like lists too.

Joe Jackson, Rodman Law, Gaby Deslys, Dorothy Gibson, Bob Curwood, Lina Cavalieri, Lucien Muratore, Mary Garden, Digby Bell, Gaston Bell, Edward Abeles, Marshall Wilder, Emmy Wehlen, Edna Goodrich, Nat Wills, Emily Stevens, Robert B. Mantell, Bertha Kalich, Ormer Locklear.
Why? I have no idea if any of their work survives, but I want to see them.

And of course, Montgomery and Rock.
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bobfells

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostThu Dec 25, 2014 8:39 pm

THE GREEN GODDESS (1923) has been restored by UCLA and even "re-premiered" in 1997 but it is not on home video. Perhaps you are referring to the preservation aspect only w/o regard to circulation.

LOC has preserved another Arliss silent, THE DEVIL (1921) that I have viewed and indeed has been posted on Youtube. But an official DVD release (perhaps paired with GREEN GODDESS) would be significant. Larry Smith told me he may bring out THE DEVIL on his own (he donated the sole surviving print to LOC) but so far not much has happened that I can see.

One more Arliss silent, $20 A WEEK (1924), sometimes written as 20 DOLLARS A WEEK, is also at the LOC.
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oldposterho

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 9:43 am

I'd like to see NY Met opera star Geraldine Farrar's films preserved. Notably: A World And Its Woman, since it would offer an interesting take on US views towards the 1917 Russian revolution. Maria Rosa, Joan the Woman, Woman God Forgot, Flame of the Desert, Woman and the Puppet would also be of interest. Since her career only spanned a few years at the end of the teens and are now public domain, these would seem to be good candidates.

The works of ethnographic filmmaker Edward Salisbury are also of keen interest to me. Black Shadows in particular, since it was later used for many films including the notorious Gow, the Headhunter. Unfortunately this appears to be the only film of his that survives.

One final star that I have a personal interest in and seems to be totally forgotten is Hollywood's first leading ape, Joe Martin. Unfortunately his work was primarily in shorts so I can't use the db to see if any of them still exist, but he was coincidentally working in the same date range as Ms. Farrar. Particularly of interest would be Monkey Movie Star, but frankly I'd take anything that is available.

Dog's speed on your quest, Bor. A truly noble cause.

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milefilms

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 10:15 am

oldposterho wrote:The works of ethnographic filmmaker Edward Salisbury are also of keen interest to me. Black Shadows in particular, since it was later used for many films including the notorious Gow, the Headhunter. Unfortunately this appears to be the only film of his that survives.--Peter


Gow the Headhunter is the first half of the Sea Gypsy voyage that was filmed by Cooper and Schoedsack. The second half is called Ra-mu, King of the Sun (featuring Haile Selassie and his 10,000 warriors charging the camera) and is at the British Film Institute.
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oldposterho

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 11:57 am

Not to hijack this thread, but this is exactly why I think Salisbury's films need preserving, he doesn't get the credit he deserves. The Gow footage definitely comes from Black Shadows and it is likely as much a compilation film as Ingagi, which is mainly 1915's Heart of Africa repackaged with exploitation footage thrown in for good measure.

Image

Image

Image

To the positive, it's possible that Ra-Mu survives because of Gow.

--Peter
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vitaphone

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 5:16 pm

Milefilms suggestion of LADY OF THE PAVEMENTS has merit. The Library of Congress has Vitaphone disks for reels 3, 6, 8, and 9 and I have previously lost disks for reels 4, 5, 8 and 10. Expanding the soundtrack for REDSKIN is another possibillity. That 1929 Richard Dix silent was restored with then-known Vitaphone soundtrack disks for just three reels: 1, 3 and 9. I have since acquired disks for reels 2, 3, 5, and 7 and another collector has disks for reels 2, 4, 5 and 7 and 8. So that means just the disk for reel 6 is missing.
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bobfells

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 5:22 pm

I second the Geraldine Farrar films mentioned above. I liked her in CARMEN and JOAN THE WOMAN, which left me wanting to see more of her work - always a good sign. She was a good singer too :).
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Spiny Norman

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 5:51 pm

Some "epics" from 1900-1910. The largest percentage of Roman, Egyptian, and Greek films was made around this time. The generally accepted explanation is that highbrow themes helped the new art form to get status and credibility.
There are several survivors like Ben-Hur 1907, Damon & Pythias 1914 and the 1912 Cleopatra that we may see, but there must be others that still survive. (I assume for a minute that they have to be US productions.)
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David Pierce

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 6:30 pm

oldposterho wrote:Not to hijack this thread, but this is exactly why I think Salisbury's films need preserving, he doesn't get the credit he deserves. The Gow footage definitely comes from Black Shadows and it is likely as much a compilation film as Ingagi, which is mainly 1915's Heart of Africa repackaged with exploitation footage thrown in for good measure.

--Peter


I deposited some nitrate and a 35mm safety fine grain for GOW THE HEADHUNTER at UCLA many years ago. This was used for the Flicker Alley BluRay release of THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, that has GOW (in HD) as a supplement.

GOW is as preserved on film as it is ever likely to be.

David Pierce
Media History Digital Library
and co-author
"The Dawn of Technicolor" - to be published in February, 2015
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kaleidoscopeworld

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 7:50 pm

oldposterho wrote:I'd like to see NY Met opera star Geraldine Farrar's films preserved. Notably: A World And Its Woman, since it would offer an interesting take on US views towards the 1917 Russian revolution.


The World and its Woman has been preserved, and is available to view here on the European Film Gateway.
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bobfells

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 8:01 pm

David Pierce wrote:
oldposterho wrote:Not to hijack this thread, but this is exactly why I think Salisbury's films need preserving, he doesn't get the credit he deserves. The Gow footage definitely comes from Black Shadows and it is likely as much a compilation film as Ingagi, which is mainly 1915's Heart of Africa repackaged with exploitation footage thrown in for good measure.

--Peter


I deposited some nitrate and a 35mm safety fine grain for GOW THE HEADHUNTER at UCLA many years ago. This was used for the Flicker Alley BluRay release of THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, that has GOW (in HD) as a supplement.

GOW is as preserved on film as it is ever likely to be.

David Pierce
Media History Digital Library
and co-author
"The Dawn of Technicolor" - to be published in February, 2015


Thank you David for the info re GOW. I've been looking for a reason to buy yet another edition of MOST DANGEROUS GAME and you've given it to me.
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oldposterho

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostFri Dec 26, 2014 9:13 pm

That is outstanding, kalaidoscopeworld, many thanks for the link.

One down...

--Peter
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Bor Enots

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSat Dec 27, 2014 8:54 am

Thanks all, keep it up. Just the kind of suggestions/discussion that I was looking for. Merry post-Christmas!
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milefilms

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSat Dec 27, 2014 1:39 pm

vitaphone wrote:Milefilms suggestion of LADY OF THE PAVEMENTS has merit. The Library of Congress has Vitaphone disks for reels 3, 6, 8, and 9 and I have previously lost disks for reels 4, 5, 8 and 10. Expanding the soundtrack for REDSKIN is another possibillity. That 1929 Richard Dix silent was restored with then-known Vitaphone soundtrack disks for just three reels: 1, 3 and 9. I have since acquired disks for reels 2, 3, 5, and 7 and another collector has disks for reels 2, 4, 5 and 7 and 8. So that means just the disk for reel 6 is missing.


And the GEH has "discs we have from Arthur Lennig are two-sided which to us means British, which might match the International version"

UCLA also has discs, but I think they are from Vitaphone?
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Harold Aherne

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSat Dec 27, 2014 2:30 pm

The Checkered Flag (1926, Banner Productions/states' rights)
stars Elaine Hammerstein, Wallace MacDonald
Not the earliest surviving, of course, but a relatively early example of the auto-racing sub-genre. Also Hammerstein's penultimate film. UCLA has incomplete nitrate, of which some reels have already been lost, so there's another impetus for preservation.

Bella Donna (1923, Famous Players-Lasky/Paramount)
stars Pola Negri, Conway Tearle, Conrad Nagel, Adolphe Mejou, Lois Wilson
Negri's first American film, probably not widely seen since its original release. Gosfilmofond and Cinémathèque Royale de Belgique have copies.

Rosita (1923, Pickford/UA)
stars Mary Pickford, Holbrook Blinn, Irene Rich, George Walsh
The first American film for Lubitsch, and a critical missing piece (in terms of easy accessibility) of both his and Pickford's filmography.

The Girl I Loved (1923, Charles Ray/UA)
stars Charles Ray, Patsy Ruth Miller
Notable as an example of one of Charles Ray's independent features and praised upon its release. Copies are held by the Cinémathèque Royale de Belgique (incomplete, according to Kevin Brownlow when he obtained a videocassette to show Patsy) and Gosfilmofond.

It would be nice to have some titles repatriated or at least to have viewing copies made available for American films that survive only in overseas archives. For Thomas Meighan (to name one personal favourite), those titles are:
The Fighting Hope (1915) BFI incomplete
Out of the Darkness (1915) Nederlands Filmmuseum
Common Ground (1916) BFI
Civilian Clothes (1920) Gosfilmofond
Pied Piper Malone (1924) Gosfilmofond

I Take This Woman (1931, Paramount)
stars Gary Cooper, Carole Lombard
Apparently sold out of the Paramount library, marked "not viewed" in the AFI Catalogue. There was, I believe, one screening somewhere a number of years ago, but this title should be archivally preserved if it hasn't been already.

Robes of Sin (1924, Jans Productions/states' rights)
stars Sylvia Breamer, Jack Mower
Prohibition/bootlegging-themed drama, a relatively rare first-billed part for Sylvia Breamer. LOC has a 35mm nitrate positive according to the Silent Film Survival Database.

-HA
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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSat Dec 27, 2014 5:10 pm

Silents? THE LAST WARNING (1929), SEVEN FOOTPRINTS TO SATAN (1929); THE SORROWS OF SATAN (1926); THE BAT (1926), the surviving films of Laura La Plante and Billie Dove should all be available on DVD or available to Turner Classic Movies (also any surviving silent serials).

Talkies? I'm interested in Carl Laemmle-era titles from Universal because they are so hard to find. Fay Wray appeared in three 1934 releases...MADAME SPY, THE COUNTESS OF MONTE CRISTO and CHEATING CHEATERS. Have they been seen anywhere in the last 80 years?
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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSun Dec 28, 2014 7:19 am

I’d like to nominate, first, Will Rogers’s output from the silent era: the 3 surviving Goldwyn features, the Roach shorts, and the travelogues. Next, the surviving silent features of W.C. Fields. And I second the nomination of Pola Negri’s American work, especially Forbidden Paradise. (I’ve seen MoMA’s print of that film, which has Czech titles and is incomplete; my understanding is that GEH’s print is complete.) And I would love to see more of Syd Chaplin’s starring features, especially King, Queen and Joker, which, I gather, exists only in the form of unedited rushes.
-- Charlie Morrow
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Bor Enots

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSun Dec 28, 2014 10:30 am

Preserved all of the Will Rogers travelogues a year or so ago from great source material. They look really good.
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Christopher Jacobs

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSun Dec 28, 2014 1:57 pm

Although I realize much of the material is lost, I would most like to see more films from stars of the 1913-1919 era preserved and made available, especially names who were huge stars at the time but are now essentially unknown by anyone not a specialist film scholar, but also many stars who became noted character actors by the late 20s, 30s, and 40s but were in their prime as matinee idols during the mid-1910s. There may well be many surviving prints that have not yet been preserved simply because the stars are not the "mainstream personalities" recognizable by average movie buffs or if they star actors that movie buffs might associate only with bit or minor character roles from the 1930s-40s they may somehow seem less urgent than films of a still-famous star or director.

This would be especially timely over the coming years as films from the years 1915-1919 mark their centennials and would be prime candidates for festivals and special screenings, and if I had a budget for preservation I'd move films in this category to the top priority.

A few of the many names I'd like to see more of include:
Bessie Barriscale, Anita Stewart, Marie Doro, Margarita Fischer, Margarite Clarke, Cleo Ridgely, Beverly Bayne, Doris Kenyon, Mabel Taliaferro, Wanda Hawley (Petit), Alice Joyce, Billie Burke, Laura Hope Crews, Bryant Washburn, Douglas MacLean, Harold Lockwood, Earle Williams, Rockliffe Fellowes, Carlyle Blackwell, Victor Moore, Eugene Pallette, Wallace Reid, Owen/Tom/Matt Moore, et al.

(Of course I'd also love to see previously-unavailable films by more familiar names like Geraldine Farrar, Will Rogers, George Arliss, Gary Cooper, W. C. Fields, Pola Negri, Theda Bara, Clara Bow, Colleen Moore, Laura LaPlante, Fay Wray, Thomas Meighan, etc., and surviving 1926-30 audio soundtrack recordings reunited with their picture elements, as well!)
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boblipton

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostSun Dec 28, 2014 2:34 pm

I will look at anything, so all the suggestions offered above strike me as great ideas. However, one of the fields largely ignored is non-comedy shorts of the 1920s. Western shorts were fairly popular in this era -- indeed, Waners made western shorts into the 1940s, some of which show up on TCM. I believe that more attention should be paid to them.

Bob
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Ray Faiola

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostMon Dec 29, 2014 7:43 am

HI DIDDLE DIDDLE (1943)
PASSPORT TO HEAVEN (1941) released as I WAS A CRIMINAL in 1945
Classic Film Scores on CD
http://www.chelsearialtostudios.com
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Bor Enots

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Re: PRESERVE WHAT?

PostMon Dec 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Hey Ray -- We have I WAS A CRIMINAL. 35mm safety negative and print made from nitrate source (can't look up the actual source from home).
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