What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

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Claus Harding

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What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostTue Dec 27, 2016 5:54 pm

Hi,

I would love people's input about the coming "leap" to what may be the final physical format, the UHD disks, and what it could mean to us as collectors of silent/early sound films.

Will the companies start over again, re-issuing the Big Ones in yet higher resolution, or will they not want to, or have the financial resources to re-do their output as 4K discs, even though many films are now mastered in 4K already for restoration? (Of, course, the inevitable rights issues are there as well.)

I ask specifically for us as niche collectors, as we have had such a history of mixed blessings with 'our' films to begin with, learning to be grateful for "at least a DVD" of certain works. Right now, as I see it, we live in a bit of a golden age of silent collecting, with beautiful Blu-Ray restorations coming out, and more films being re-worked, with plenty still to be done.

Having just gone region-free with a new player for "Napoleon", the BFI and Eureka are now threatening my wallet as badly as Criterion and Kino, and while I love what I see offered, I feel (again) that tension between formats, whether to stock up on great films in Blu-Ray or hold off for 4K which may or may not have what I want.

The technical considerations (about how many films have source material that can benefit from 4K) is a whole discussion of its own.

What do you all think 4K will (or won't) do for us for collecting purposes?

Claus.
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Danny Burk

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostTue Dec 27, 2016 6:42 pm

I'm basically ignoring it. Even though the television that I bought last year will play it, the difference between 4k and blu-ray wouldn't be noticeable from across the room unless it's projected on a very large screen. Or, on a smaller screen if you're sitting very close, which I don't do.
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ColemanShedman

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostWed Dec 28, 2016 7:55 am

I would think most any film would benefit from 4K. Whether or not you'd notice much difference on your tv is debatable and would depend on a number of factors. I think certainly you'd notice a difference if you have a projector. The one thing people seem to overlook with 4K is many of the newer sets have a Higher Dynamic Range capability in addition to the higher resolution. This could be something that would make a dramatic difference in image quality. That said, given the paucity of movies I want to see that have been released in the format, and the continuing high cost of the players and discs, I haven't been willing to take the plunge. As an aside, I gave a gift to a 20something co-worker for Christmas, a blu-ray of a film I'd heard him say he liked. Thing is, he doesn't have a player. It never occurred to me he wouldn't. I don't know if he is the norm but it seems to me that physical media is on it's way out. Who needs 4K when you're watching a movie on your laptop or tablet? (Now that is something I'll never understand).
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Michael O'Regan

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostWed Dec 28, 2016 8:24 am

DVD is good enough. Blu Ray is a bonus. That's it!!
:wink:
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All Darc

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 10:15 am

There are already 4K D-ila projector for sale, by a high price.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=4k ... s&_sacat=0

I'm imagining that if in 10 years the price of such hi-end projector get affordable, like the price of a advanced 50 inch screen TV, and when fiber optics for extreme fast internet became available in most home, allowing pay to download quality 4K film files, what will happen to most of the cinema theaters ?
Would theaters go to something like 8K digital cinerama ?

With 4k D-ILA projector affordable, I think even architects would design homes to have a large screen in the living room, allowing space to enjoy full 4k resolution.

About older films, sometimes I feel like even some movies shot in the 80's don't have very much resolution, even in camera negatives, to make a huge difference from full HD transfer to 4K transfer.
Keep thinking...

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Donald Binks

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 5:33 pm

As someone who is of the opinion that if it's a lousy film or whatever - it ain't going to be any better done in super-collosal-wonderscopic Zooterfilter 500K. I know there are some out there who sit in the dark and want to see every frame as clear as a bell but these people never went to the "Regal-Rex" Ootnaglarbi where the projectionist was wont to be taking a few sips of the cooking sherry between reels. Focusing and clear prints were not always a feature of film presentation in them there good ol' days.

I just wonder how many more times what everyone seems quite happy with will be made obsolete? It seems to occur every five years or so. Two televisions I bought not that long ago have now got footrot in that they won't do MPEG2 which is apparently the new way of transmitting HD pictures.

I just don't earn enough of the old folding stuff to be going out and buying something new all the time - so, I will make do with me DVD's and be perfectly happy.
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Donald Binks

"I tawt I taw a Pooty Tat. I did! I did taw a Pooty Tat!
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All Darc

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostFri Feb 10, 2017 3:22 pm

:lol: We could state the limits of human retina and the limits of eye moving angles.
MPEG-2 is for DVDs, as Blu-Ray uses mostly MEPG-4

I have no huge problems with just few light scratchs and few dirt speckles, since it's film like. But I don't like digital vídeo artefacts on digital media, and I get very distracted and anoyed by constant details getting loss during motion, that happens in bad HD broadcast.

Honestly, I was more happy with a Trinitron CRT 29 inch TV and DVD, than with this 50 inch LED-LCD connected to the HD sat TV. I stopped to watch Tv due this. A good SD was better on CRT, better than a crap garbage HD on a large LED-LCD screen.

I have something that will really anoys you or make you fall from the chair. They created a 10 inch screen (tablet screen) with 4 K (3840x2160) resolution, So if you have a very powerfull magnifying glass pointed to it and patience, you may be able to see the difference compared to a 1080p tablet.

At least some "do it yourself" guy made a proper use for it creating homemade 4K projector for a fraction of then price of a comertial 4k projector:

http://www.instructables.com/id/World-F ... Projector/" target="_blank


The edges of screenh got a bit fuzzy, the the center and middle looks good.
Such projects of projector needs Fresnel lenses. If the Fresnel lenses were made with optical glass instead of pollymer, I believe the result would be even better.


Donald Binks wrote:As someone who is of the opinion that if it's a lousy film or whatever - it ain't going to be any better done in super-collosal-wonderscopic Zooterfilter 500K. I know there are some out there who sit in the dark and want to see every frame as clear as a bell but these people never went to the "Regal-Rex" Ootnaglarbi where the projectionist was wont to be taking a few sips of the cooking sherry between reels. Focusing and clear prints were not always a feature of film presentation in them there good ol' days.

I just wonder how many more times what everyone seems quite happy with will be made obsolete? It seems to occur every five years or so. Two televisions I bought not that long ago have now got footrot in that they won't do MPEG2 which is apparently the new way of transmitting HD pictures.

I just don't earn enough of the old folding stuff to be going out and buying something new all the time - so, I will make do with me DVD's and be perfectly happy.
Keep thinking...

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timothymayer

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostSun Feb 12, 2017 2:00 pm

"As someone who is of the opinion that if it's a lousy film or whatever - it ain't going to be any better done in super-collosal-wonderscopic Zooterfilter 500K. I know there are some out there who sit in the dark and want to see every frame as clear as a bell but these people never went to the "Regal-Rex" Ootnaglarbi where the projectionist was wont to be taking a few sips of the cooking sherry between reels. Focusing and clear prints were not always a feature of film presentation in them there good ol' days."

LOL, one of the things I constantly bust my kids over was how hard it was to see a decent copy of a movie in the old days. Every time I watch and old Hercules movie on my 1080 55 inch screen and hear them wine, I deliver a lecture to them about crappy drive-in images and yellowed prints shown in grindhouses. Recently I had a chance to watch the "Tenth Victim" on Amazon Prime and nearly went into a state of ecstasy over the beauty of the source print. My wife couldn't understand the big deal and I had to explain how the first time I saw this movie was in black and white on a late night TV show chopped up for commercials.
Anyone who has issues with less-than-perfect film showings needs to be forced to watch "Zardoz" for 24 hours.
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All Darc

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostSun Feb 12, 2017 6:50 pm

Thanks to film preservation and film restoration efforts. :)

It's sad that is quite hard to find a good digital media or good screen to watch such achievements. :(

timothymayer wrote:LOL, one of the things I constantly bust my kids over was how hard it was to see a decent copy of a movie in the old days. Every time I watch and old Hercules movie on my 1080 55 inch screen and hear them wine, I deliver a lecture to them about crappy drive-in images and yellowed prints shown in grindhouses. Recently I had a chance to watch the "Tenth Victim" on Amazon Prime and nearly went into a state of ecstasy over the beauty of the source print. My wife couldn't understand the big deal and I had to explain how the first time I saw this movie was in black and white on a late night TV show chopped up for commercials.
Anyone who has issues with less-than-perfect film showings needs to be forced to watch "Zardoz" for 24 hours.
Keep thinking...

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coolcatdaddy

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostTue Feb 28, 2017 6:22 am

I have a feeling that 4K UHD won't have much impact among classic movie collectors. I just can't see the studios going back to rescan titles for the format - the market for them would probably be too small. Just think of the number of old films that Twilight Time has released on blu-ray in limited editions of 3,000 copies and even some of those don't sell out quickly.

I imagine that big classic films that already have a Digital Cinema Print available in 4K - Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, etc - might make the jump to UHD. Right now, the only title I can think of that's been offered commercially in 4K is "Lawrence of Arabia" from Sony/Columbia and that one's not out on UHD, but only sold on a streaming/hard drive 4K device that Sony marketed for a brief period.

For current films that are already out there for theatrical presentation in 4K, it's kind of a no-brainer.

The only classic/art house label I can think of that might have content ready to go in 4K for UHD release would be Criterion, since many of their titles, like "Hard Day's Night", the Chaplin and Kurosawa films, have had 4K restorations and theatrical presentations in that format through Janus Films.
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All Darc

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostTue Feb 28, 2017 11:16 am

Gone With the Wind, in the last restoration effort, got a 8K restoration. Not sure if 8K was the resolution of the scanning's sensor and later converted to work in 4K files, or if 8K was the resolution it was worked duging digital fix.
They did single 4K digital screening in theater a years ago.

it's something like that: Yoy need a 8K scanning sensor to produce a perfect 4K file.
Keep thinking...

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Claus Harding

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Re: What Role for 4K UHD Disks in Collecting?

PostWed Mar 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Interesting thoughts all around. I could imagine that, say, the "big ten" (or twenty) of film history could get the 4K treatment. The 65mm ones would make sense, such as "Lawrence" or "Ben-Hur." That might get people to buy yet again , but as for more "commonplace" fare, the Blu-Rays are quite beautiful. (Currently awaiting yet another five discs from Eureka...)

C.

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