Tweet 28mm on ebay; What the hell is this stench!?!??!?

Man, I paid out $65 for a reel of 28mm from one of those auctions and it just arrived.

I opened the box and the stench almost shut down my kidneys.

What the hell is this liquid crap coating the reel and film? I've heard mentions of it on this forum.

It is a very strong reek of camphor and vinegar.

There is an old blotter at the bottom of the can but it is the only thing in the box that is dry.

Any ideas what this crap is? I'm thinking of sending it back. Washed my hands three times and they still stink.

VS which somebody has tried to retard/disguise with camphor.

Send it back.

VS which somebody has tried to retard/disguise with camphor.

Send it back.

This is old stuff though. Chunks of gunk coat the print.

Man, I paid out $65 for a reel of 28mm from one of those auctions and it just arrived.

I opened the box and the stench almost shut down my kidneys.

See, that's what happens when you insist on living in the nude.

If you had been wearing clothes, Darren, the stench would only have shrunk your underwear into a painful wedgie.


Jim

Camphor oil is one of the "home remedies" used to slow Vinegar Syndrome. I've tried it a couple of times. It didn't work.

Darren- my apologies for not answering your facebook message yet. A few I've received have the same type of "gunk". Another person who has handled early prints tells me it was common for them to sometimes be "lubricated" with oils which I imagine, after 90 years, have coagulated into a mess of sticky goo.
Apart from that, these are diacetate safety prints...hence the camphor odor, but probably also suffering from some VS (nothing overly serious in the few dozen prints I've gone through) so it's a sort of overwhelming odor compound. Clean the can/reel and pass the film a couple times through a light cleaner and that should cut down on the gunk and maybe some of the odor. These films are too precious for us not to give them some TLC.

I opened the box and the stench almost shut down my kidneys.

What the hell is this liquid crap coating the reel and film? I've heard mentions of it on this forum.

It is a very strong reek of camphor and vinegar.

Darren,

Try not to panic. First off the film is di-acetate like Tom has states.
Basically this film base was made from camphore oil to start with.
Thus the camphore smell you have in the cans, that is normal.

Now on to the rest...I am going to give a guess that the film you have
has the 3 sprockets hole on one side and the 1 frameing hole on the
other. This is the Pathe perf setup. Thus the raw film was made by
Pathe. All of the films I have it is only the Pathe stock that also has the
vinegar smell to the film. So it is easy to say that unlike the Kodak
film stock the Pathe stuff is not straight di-acetate in composition.

As for the oil. I think the last owner put straight oil into the film
trying to perserve the film from further shinkage. As the camphore is
put off in fumes the film shrinks. That piece of cardboard is where a
few drops of camphore oil was suppose to go in order to stop shinkage.
Not over the whole film. Also the oil has held the vinegar on the film,
and some of that greasy feeling is liquid vinegar on the film mixed with
the oil. Nasty stuff indeed.

However, this has left you with a mess. I have been cleaning these
films with Vitafilm to get the oil off. It takes several passes with the
cleaner to do the job. And make sure you put this on a new core and
a archival can for storage. Rusty reels and cans hold the acids that
can lead to further base rot. You will have to use 35mm supplies for
storage as there are no 28mm supplies that are being sold. I would
love to find some though.

And good luck the auction clearly stated condition of the film with a
no return policy. You would lose an Ebay claim case. However, the
sellers are both nice people you never know, I guess if you decide that
it is too much work, all you can do is ask about a return and see what
happens.

My point of veiw on these films is...everyone likes to talk about
preservation and saving of film. However, no one likes to do the
hard part messy part. I am a do-er not much on talking! Well you
know besides this long boring post I just did. haha.

Pookybear

I already have some 28mm but not with gunk on it and decided to keep this. (No choice, really.)

I aired it out on the porch for some hours and in the basement. Most of the reek is gone.

To me, out of all the one reelers offered by the two sellers this is the gem.



Back before the economy went sour I was buying up lots of film with the aim of putting most on home video and parting with them on eBay and archives.

This will have helped fill out a social reform / temperance DVD very nicely. I never buy film these days but there is hope I may eventually get the home video idea back on track.

Also, I didn't bother to read this bold capped in the auction description until now...


"CONDITION IS POOR. THIS FILM IS OILY AND HAS CURLING AND SMELLS. IT APPEARS COMPLETE AND HAS VERY INTERESTING SUBJECT MATTER THAT MIGHT MAKE IT A WORTHY RESTORATION PROJECT FOR SOMEONE. YOU CAN SEE IN THE LAST PHOTO THAT I DID NOT UNWIND IT ALL THE WAY AND WHEN I WENT TO WIND IT BACK, IT WOULD NOT FIT ON THE REEL SO I PUT IT IN A ZIP LOCK BAG AND WILL SEND IT OUTSIDE THE TIN. THIS PROBABLY HAS SOME VALUE FOR THE INDIVIDUAL CELLS IF NOTHING ELSE AND IF YOU CAN CLEAN THE OILY RESIDUE OFF YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO VIEW IT."

Albeit, I think I still got a great deal. Coming across Temperance items is as easy as Eugenics. This kind of stuff was tossed in the bin decades ago as soon as it was out of fashion. I've got prints in worse shape.

Also, I didn't bother to read this bold capped in the auction description until now...


"CONDITION IS POOR. THIS FILM IS OILY AND HAS CURLING AND SMELLS. IT APPEARS COMPLETE AND HAS VERY INTERESTING SUBJECT MATTER THAT MIGHT MAKE IT A WORTHY RESTORATION PROJECT FOR SOMEONE. YOU CAN SEE IN THE LAST PHOTO THAT I DID NOT UNWIND IT ALL THE WAY AND WHEN I WENT TO WIND IT BACK, IT WOULD NOT FIT ON THE REEL SO I PUT IT IN A ZIP LOCK BAG AND WILL SEND IT OUTSIDE THE TIN. THIS PROBABLY HAS SOME VALUE FOR THE INDIVIDUAL CELLS IF NOTHING ELSE AND IF YOU CAN CLEAN THE OILY RESIDUE OFF YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO VIEW IT."

Darren,

Ouch not reading the discription! I always read them twice to make
sure I am not suprised when the post arrives. But even I miss things
sometimes. I am glad to hear you are going to preserve this film.
And it looks like it needs a cleaning badly. That will help with both the
oil and the smell. I have already gotten a few reels into a stable condition.
So it can be done. Just lots of fun and a bit hard on the lungs.

Pookybear

Camphor is added as part of the manufacturing to make film flexible, but doesn't affect the smell (unless, as a previous poster suggests, it's added as a fallacious "home remedy" for vinegar decomp). Some old-timers also used heavy oil to "preserve" the film. I've handled a few reels that this has been done to. Obviously, not very effective and a pain to deal with. Normally aging acetate film should only smell like vinegar.

Camphor is added as part of the manufacturing to make film flexible, but doesn't affect the smell (unless, as a previous poster suggests, it's added as a fallacious "home remedy" for vinegar decomp). Some old-timers also used heavy oil to "preserve" the film. I've handled a few reels that this has been done to. Obviously, not very effective and a pain to deal with. Normally aging acetate film should only smell like vinegar.

Well there is a difference between di and tri acetate base films. As
we know tri acetate has long been know to rot down to the vinegar
smell. However, di-acetate is made from camphore and not just an
additive to help with flexibility. So even when new the di-acetate stock
had this smell to some degree. Just like cellulose nitrate this film base
is a wood based product. So it does degrade.

The problem really stands on who made the di acetate stock to start
with most of the Kodak film base is very stable. However, the Pathe
stuff rots out faster under improper condition and suffer not only from
camphor loss, but vinegar syndrome as well.

Pookybear

Solid camphor, NOT camphor oil, can work miracles. I've used it with great measurable success. I agree that the problem with this reel is probably some old oil on it. It may be too far gone to save.

Eric

Camphor oil is one of the "home remedies" used to slow Vinegar Syndrome. I've tried it a couple of times. It didn't work.

Did you use oil of camphor or camphorated oil? The first will work, the latter is useless. Better to just get a small quarter to half inch chunk of camphor and stik it in the can.

Darren, just wondering if you were able to salvage this print or not? I'd be very curious and interested to hear "the rest of the story," please!

Darren, just wondering if you were able to salvage this print or not? I'd be very curious and interested to hear "the rest of the story," please!

Still soaking in Vitafilm!!

Darren, just wondering if you were able to salvage this print or not? I'd be very curious and interested to hear "the rest of the story," please!

Still soaking in Vitafilm!!

Thanks for the update! Hopefully all the time in the dunk tank will pay off and you'll have salvaged that film.

Thanks for the update! Hopefully all the time in the dunk tank will pay off and you'll have salvaged that film.

It turns out that this Prohibition film was made just months after the law was passed.

Darren, just wondering if you were able to salvage this print or not? I'd be very curious and interested to hear "the rest of the story," please!

Still soaking in Vitafilm!!

Keep at it Darren,

I still have several reels of film suffering the same fate. After two years of cleaning and recleaning still in a very
poor state and degrading fast. I hope I can save them. Now I have had about 18 reels of film come out of the
basement because they have stabilized rather nicely. So I am ever hopeful on the remaining reels. My "how to
make soap" is the worst off, odd that cleaning film would be the dirtiest of the bunch. <.<

Pookybear