Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

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Gagman 66
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Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Gagman 66 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:59 pm

:? Just thought I would mention that TCM is airing this film whatever version for the first time at 8:00 PM/7:00 central in a couple nights. My guess is it will be the same as the 1980s Paramount VHS with Gaylord Carter score. Who knows, TCM might surprise us with Carl Davis or J. S. Zamecnik music, or maybe even something new? Don't count on it though. I say this because Chuck Tabesh told me that TCM has to rent Paramount owned Silents from Paramount/Viacom, not Photoplay Productions, Criterion or anyone else. As was the case when they finally aired THE LAST COMMAND a couple years ago. The score was not the one Robert Israel prepared in 2010, but the same Gaylord Carter music as the 1980's VHS. Subsequently Eureka in the U. K. Just released LAST COMMAND on Blu-ray and Robert Israel's score is nowhere to be found. Also the running time seems to infer that this won't be the Brownlow/Stanberry edition produced in 1998. If it does turn out to be Davis, Zamecnik, or something new Maybe Israel, not to mention a sharp new transfer, I'll be pleasingly surprised. Does anyone have first hand information? Thanks.

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azjazzman
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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by azjazzman » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:57 am

Gagman 66 wrote::? Just thought I would mention that TCM is airing this film whatever version for the first time at 8:00 PM/7:00 central in a couple nights. My guess is it will be the same as the 1980s Paramount VHS with Gaylord Carter score. Who knows, TCM might surprise us with Carl Davis or J. S. Zamecnik music, or maybe even something new? Don't count on it though. I say this because Chuck Tabesh told me that TCM has to rent Paramount owned Silents from Paramount/Viacom, not Photoplay Productions, Criterion or anyone else. As was the case when they finally aired THE LAST COMMAND a couple years ago. The score was not the one Robert Israel prepared in 2010, but the same Gaylord Carter music as the 1980's VHS. Subsequently Eureka in the U. K. Just released LAST COMMAND on Blu-ray and Robert Israel's score is nowhere to be found. Also the running time seems to infer that this won't be the Brownlow/Stanberry edition produced in 1998. If it does turn out to be Davis, Zamecnik, or something new Maybe Israel, not to mention a sharp new transfer, I'll be pleasingly surprised. Does anyone have first hand information? Thanks.
I contacted Photoplay back when THE WEDDING MARCH first appeared on the TCM online schedule, and I got this non-answer answer:

'We did not licence the screening as it would come from Paramount directly in the USA, so we do not know what version TCM might be showing, it could be the Photoplay version, but not necessarily."

Sounds like it will be the VHS-Era Paramount transfer with the Gaylord Carter score, but we'll just have to wait and see.

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Agnes
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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Agnes » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:26 pm

I know it was on YouTube, but I don't think it had any music.
I have never seen it, and it is on my list of films I wanted to see.

I am very excited about the broadcast tonight.
We son get that many silent premiers these days, and to get one during August!

I hadn't heard any news of a restoration, so it might very well be an older version. I am happy to see it.....with a score
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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Agnes » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:14 pm

Yup, Photoplay version
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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Rob Farr » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:12 am

No color during the apple blossom sequence, which I thought was a feature of the Photoplay version. I wonder if TCM just had the chrominance turned off for the cablecast?
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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Big Silent Fan » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:14 am

Rob Farr wrote:No color during the apple blossom sequence, which I thought was a feature of the Photoplay version. I wonder if TCM just had the chrominance turned off for the cablecast?
I watched it today. Terrific Carl Davis score, perfectly synced with bells, etc., important since there were so many.
The color sequence; the "Corpus Christie" church service with full military presence was stunning in two strip Technicolor.
Like most major films and especially those by Stroheim, it required patience to follow the story as it slowly unfolded. It was well worth the effort. With the many titles strung together, Stroheim sought to tell the story with words as well as the motion picture.
I found the dedication, "To the true lovers of the world. E.vS." strange seeing how the film ended.
On second thought; perhaps it means it's dedicated to those who have sought true love, and not profit in the one they choose to marry? The film shows the sadness of choosing to marry for money.

Of course his film (originally running more than six hours) might have had an entirely different ending.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Danny Burk » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:24 am

The Carl Davis score is very good, as always, but it's a shame that the original soundtrack - my favorite of any silent film - wasn't included. I watched it last night, and it's missing a lot without that beautiful score.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:44 pm

Danny Burk wrote:The Carl Davis score is very good, as always, but it's a shame that the original soundtrack - my favorite of any silent film - wasn't included. I watched it last night, and it's missing a lot without that beautiful score.
I've never heard it. Is there a recording of it online that I can listen to? You've got me very curious now. I hope it's included when (or if) Criterion gets around to releasing this.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Big Silent Fan » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:51 pm

Mitch Farish wrote:
Danny Burk wrote:The Carl Davis score is very good, as always, but it's a shame that the original soundtrack - my favorite of any silent film - wasn't included. I watched it last night, and it's missing a lot without that beautiful score.
I've never heard it. Is there a recording of it online that I can listen to? You've got me very curious now. I hope it's included when (or if) Criterion gets around to releasing this.
A simple search...
http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=the+w ... -searchbox" target="_blank" target="_blank

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Mr.Mycroft » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:53 pm

Mitch Farish wrote:
I've never heard it. Is there a recording of it online that I can listen to? You've got me very curious now. I hope it's included when (or if) Criterion gets around to releasing this.
Actually, does anyone have any idea what Criterion is doing with this film? Its been in the rumor hopper for years and years now.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:55 pm

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear. I would like to hear the original score. I did hear the Carl Davis score last night, but I can't find a sample of the original.

I found the following quote in a Mont Alto Composer Profile:

"Wings, The Wedding March, Betrayal, and Redskin were all silent films, but the scores were recorded for theaters that were "wired for sound." Unfortunately, none of these scores have been used on home video versions of these films to date (and as Betrayal is considered a "lost film" its score will likely never be performed again). Zamecnik retired not long after the arrival of talkies -- according to his sons, he did not care for sound movies, where instead of glorious live orchestral music in the theater, audiences heard low-fidelity recordings played behind dialog and sound effects."

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by radiotelefonia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:27 pm

Mitch Farish wrote:Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear. I would like to hear the original score. I did hear the Carl Davis score last night, but I can't find a sample of the original.

I found the following quote in a Mont Alto Composer Profile:

"Wings, The Wedding March, Betrayal, and Redskin were all silent films, but the scores were recorded for theaters that were "wired for sound." Unfortunately, none of these scores have been used on home video versions of these films to date (and as Betrayal is considered a "lost film" its score will likely never be performed again). Zamecnik retired not long after the arrival of talkies -- according to his sons, he did not care for sound movies, where instead of glorious live orchestral music in the theater, audiences heard low-fidelity recordings played behind dialog and sound effects."
No... THE WEDDING MARCH was the very first film from Paramount distributed worldwide with a soundtrack.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Danny Burk » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:13 pm

I don't think the original track has ever been included in a home video release. I used to have a 16mm print that included it, back in the dark ages when I collected actual prints.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Gagman 66 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:00 am

:D Allot of folks must have watched last night, because it's getting great reviews from fans, requests for a DVD, and is the Number 1 most researched title at the moment on the TCM Movie Data Base! I would call that a notable debut!

Was great to see the Photoplay Productions version. Took a long time to hit the States. 17 years! Maybe TCM will be running it more often? Now if they could just get a hold of the Photoplay version of THE EAGLE as well. Some group has been pushing for a Valentino night on "Suggest A Movie." They are miffed that He isn't being honored on the 90th Anniversary of his death.

:? Still haven't been able to find out about LILAC TIME on the October schedule? Did they locate those three missing audio discs? Anyone know? Thanks?


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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by azjazzman » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:40 pm

Danny Burk wrote:I don't think the original track has ever been included in a home video release. I used to have a 16mm print that included it, back in the dark ages when I collected actual prints.
The Photoplay restoration of The Wedding March is really more of a reconstruction, with scenes and shots pieced together from a number of different prints/sources. The end result is a version that is quite different from any previous version. So, the track from an earlier print would never match up with this particular version without a major editing job and repeating sections, etc., and maybe not even then.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by azjazzman » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:06 pm

Rob Farr wrote:No color during the apple blossom sequence, which I thought was a feature of the Photoplay version. I wonder if TCM just had the chrominance turned off for the cablecast?
No, it was the Corpus Christi parade sequence that was in Technicolor, and it was intact on the TCM broadcast.

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by Danny Burk » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:21 pm

azjazzman wrote:The Photoplay restoration of The Wedding March is really more of a reconstruction, with scenes and shots pieced together from a number of different prints/sources. The end result is a version that is quite different from any previous version. So, the track from an earlier print would never match up with this particular version without a major editing job and repeating sections, etc., and maybe not even then.
I assumed that would be the case, and although I've seen the original version many, many times, I wasn't able to pick out any differences. Do you recall any offhand?

The sound is a bit out of sync in my 1928 version; it must have happened when it was preserved originally. It's especially noticeable in the scene where Schani is chopping meat; there are "chop" sounds on the track that are quite a bit "off".

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Re: Reminder: THE WEDDING MARCH on TCM Thursday Evening!

Unread post by azjazzman » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:18 pm

Danny Burk wrote:
azjazzman wrote:The Photoplay restoration of The Wedding March is really more of a reconstruction, with scenes and shots pieced together from a number of different prints/sources. The end result is a version that is quite different from any previous version. So, the track from an earlier print would never match up with this particular version without a major editing job and repeating sections, etc., and maybe not even then.
I assumed that would be the case, and although I've seen the original version many, many times, I wasn't able to pick out any differences. Do you recall any offhand?

The sound is a bit out of sync in my 1928 version; it must have happened when it was preserved originally. It's especially noticeable in the scene where Schani is chopping meat; there are "chop" sounds on the track that are quite a bit "off".
As you know, Danny, the history of THE WEDDING MARCH is very convoluted and complex. The short answer is that the goal of Kevin Brownlow and Patrick Stanbury was to match as closely as possible an early 1950s cut that Von Stroheim had assembled for a print in the archive of the Cinémathèque Française. The actual nitrate print had deteriorated, but it had been copied, albeit in a substandard quality.

Using the material at the Library of Congress, some of the print in France and some collector's material in 16mm, the idea was to get the best quality available in a print that matched the 1954 cut by EVS. The resultant print ran 109m.

For a more detailed explanation, here are some notes from a Pordenone screening in 1999, including some notes from Carl Davis about the score.

http://www.cinetecadelfriuli.org/gcm/ed ... _wedd.html

The 1928 score you had derived from discs, of course. They may have had some problems synching it up with the surviving print material.

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