Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

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Keatonesque
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Fri May 04, 2018 4:46 pm

Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(
What silents were those likely to have been slated for restoration by Universal?

The announcement of You Never Know Women is one of the best surprises in recent years. Hopefully, they will get around to a definitive release of It on HD in the near future. My hopes are high for some Pola Negri films too, especially Barbed Wire. Knowing Criterion, since they are just releasing a half dozen Dietrich/von Sternberg talkies, chances are Underworld and The Docks of New York won't happen for some time to come. Consider the last time they released a Chaplin or Lloyd film – the wait can be excruciatingly frustrating.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Gagman 66 » Fri May 04, 2018 5:14 pm

Keatonesque,

:? BARBED WIRE only exists from 16 millimeter sources, although they seem to be much better processed then the elements were on MANHANDLED. Nevertheless, it is a factor. Whereas by contrast, THE SPANISH DANCER, FORBIDDEN PARADISE, and A WOMAN OF THE WORLD have all been recently restored from the best surviving 35 millimeter materials. According to Kevin Brownlow back in 2008 "very good, beautiful quality prints of HOTEL IMPERIAL do exist". I trust that they still do. I personally like Swanson's FINE MANNERS better then ZAZA, MANHADLED, or STAGE STRUCK. Again I don't think any 35 Millimeter elements survive? I hope that I'm mistaken. CAPTAIN BLOOD (1924) is another Paramount Silent (I think), that was recently restored.

Thankfully, I have the Criterion Von Sternberg set with UNDERWORLD, DOCKS, and LAST COMMAND which was only in print for a few years. I was just trying to point out that maybe those films have now lapsed over to Kino? Also I want to know if any of these Paramount Silents are gonna be picked up by TCM? Hasn't happened so far. Even CHILDREN OF DIVORCE which came out from Flicker Alley in December of 2016.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Fri May 04, 2018 5:35 pm

Gagman 66 wrote:Keatonesque,

:? BARBED WIRE only exists from 16 millimeter sources, although they seem to be much better processed then the elements were on MANHANDLED. Nevertheless, it is a factor. Whereas by contrast, THE SPANISH DANCER, FORBIDDEN PARADISE, and A WOMAN OF THE WORLD have all been recently restored from the best surviving 35 millimeter materials. According to Kevin Brownlow back in 2008 "very good, beautiful quality prints of HOTEL IMPERIAL do exist". I trust that they still do. I personally like Swanson's FINE MANNERS better then ZAZA, MANHADLED, or STAGE STRUCK. Again I don't think any 35 Millimeter elements survive? I hope that I'm mistaken. CAPTAIN BLOOD (1924) is another Paramount Silent (I think), that was recently restored.

Thankfully, I have the Criterion Von Sternberg set with UNDERWORLD, DOCKS, and LAST COMMAND which was only in print for a few years. I was just trying to point out that maybe those films have now lapsed over to Kino? Also I want to know if any of these Paramount Silents are gonna be picked up by TCM? Hasn't happened so far. Even CHILDREN OF DIVORCE which came out from Flicker Alley in December of 2016.
I know Fine Manners was screened at the Film Forum in NYC two years ago, but don't know what the print used was or what condition it was in. Does anyone know? I'd hope that would be the next Swanson to see the light of day. It might be for the best if KINO did have the rights to Underworld and The Docks of New York since Criterion could take years before bothering with them. But perhaps they would be worth the wait. Criterion usually does beautiful work with silents. At the time that collection was released, Criterion was already releasing Blu-Rays, if I'm not mistaken, so they could've just invested in HD releases of those films rather than just SD, but such is life. We can only hope for those that have already undergone restorations from 35-mm elements will be blessed with releases via KINO or perhaps Flicker Alley in the near future.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Danny Burk » Fri May 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Keatonesque wrote:At the time that collection was released, Criterion was already releasing Blu-Rays, if I'm not mistaken, so they could've just invested in HD releases of those films rather than just SD, but such is life.
For the von Sternberg set's release, Criterion had only licensed for SD from Paramount; they stated that they'd have to renegotiate a new license to make a blu-ray version.

LAST COMMAND is not being reissued by Kino. It's the 1955 film of the same title, with no connection to the silent.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Fri May 04, 2018 7:22 pm

Danny Burk wrote:
Keatonesque wrote:At the time that collection was released, Criterion was already releasing Blu-Rays, if I'm not mistaken, so they could've just invested in HD releases of those films rather than just SD, but such is life.
For the von Sternberg set's release, Criterion had only licensed for SD from Paramount; they stated that they'd have to renegotiate a new license to make a blu-ray version.

LAST COMMAND is not being reissued by Kino. It's the 1955 film of the same title, with no connection to the silent.
I think that's preferable to have Criterion upgrade all three rather than KINO. Criterion will undoubtedly do fantastic work with further restoration work on Underworld and The Docks of New York. Did you mean renegotiate in order to upgrade them in the future or at the time they were initially negotiating the license for the first release? My understanding was they licensed for SD initially while already having begun releasing BDs. Perhaps the timing was unfortunate. Had they tried some years later, I'm sure it would've been an HD release. In any case, since the KINO deal, one hopes Paramount are more accommodating nowadays and Criterion can upgrade that collection (two of the films in it which I consider to be superior to all the Dietrich–von Sternberg collaborations save for perhaps The Blue Angel) sooner than later.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Danny Burk » Fri May 04, 2018 7:35 pm

Keatonesque wrote:Did you mean renegotiate in order to upgrade them in the future or at the time they were initially negotiating the license for the first release? My understanding was they licensed for SD initially while already having begun releasing BDs. Perhaps the timing was unfortunate. Had they tried some years later, I'm sure it would've been an HD release.
I think it was that, i.e. poor timing, since negotiations apparently took place before Criterion started doing blu for all their releases. Of course it's possible that said renegotiations for a blu reissue have taken place since then, unknown to any of us, but in any event let's hope that an upgrade does come forth at some point.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Fri May 04, 2018 7:53 pm

Danny Burk wrote:
Keatonesque wrote:Did you mean renegotiate in order to upgrade them in the future or at the time they were initially negotiating the license for the first release? My understanding was they licensed for SD initially while already having begun releasing BDs. Perhaps the timing was unfortunate. Had they tried some years later, I'm sure it would've been an HD release.
I think it was that, i.e. poor timing, since negotiations apparently took place before Criterion started doing blu for all their releases. Of course it's possible that said renegotiations for a blu reissue have taken place since then, unknown to any of us, but in any event let's hope that an upgrade does come forth at some point.
I've no doubt the results will be worth the wait, as they are always consistent with their silents, though their output has really stalled lately. I believe last year had only The Lodger/Downhill and a Vampyr upgrade, while this year has only had The Passion of Joan of Arc upgrade, with over 2 years since the last Chaplin or Lloyd, though I recall seeing someone mention some months ago Suzanne Lloyd stated The Kid Brother would be coming this year and a boxset of Lloyd's shorts would come someday as planned.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by buskeat » Mon May 07, 2018 1:42 pm

Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(
YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN is a William Wellman film, many viewers love Wellman, and the Blu-Ray features commentary from his son. I don't think it's fair to the film or to Kino Lorber to summarily dismiss it. I do know OLD IRONSIDES is coming soon. KL just released four Paramount silents in the last two months plus the Douglas Fairbanks/Allan Dwan double feature, so I'll patiently await OLD IRONSIDES. We've waited since 1987 for a better home video release and I can wait a couple more months.

My hunch is Criterion Collection has been working on getting the three silent Von Sternbergs to Blu Ray but they've clearly been concentrating on the upcoming July Dietrich/Von Sternberg set, which is a massive investment for them. (THE LAST COMMAND that's coming from Kino Lorber is a 1955 film that has no relation to the Von Sternberg silent.) It takes a LOT OF TIME to get these things done. A LOT.

I'm sure KL is licensing other Paramount silents, but they're not going to announce anything until they're ready to announce.

Also, Gagman, keep in mind that FORBIDDEN PARADISE is only 19 months away from entering the public domain. Then even YOU can release it on Blu-Ray if you want!

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Mon May 07, 2018 2:01 pm

Okay, maybe I'm spoiled because I have seen nearly everything Gagman mentioned in theaters.

But I LOVE being surprised by titles like this rather than seeing them checking off what I expect to see.

This Kino series of Paramount films has just been marvelous, and that's why I try to feature them on NitrateVille Radio and review them in Old Movies on HD whenever I can. Buy them to keep them coming, and encourage the titles you want to see, but don't complain.
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Mon May 07, 2018 2:22 pm

precode wrote:
Danny Burk wrote:
precode wrote:I suspect that the 35 I made was junked. When I was fired by Paramount in 1993, they stupidly trashed a lot of the prints I made (including a tinted print of TESS OF THE STORM COUNTRY) just to be spiteful, not considering that those were corporate assets that could have continued to generate income.

This may be another instance of people just assuming the studio had no elements without even bothering to ask. Remember people driving themselves crazy trying to restore OLD DARK HOUSE when the original elements were sitting in the Universal vault all along?

Mike S.
It's a sad thing that this doesn't surprise me. I hope they still have the neg, or it's likely gone in 35mm.
I don't think they would throw the neg away, but it's not likely they're going to do anything with it, at least in the near future. Look how long it took them to put WINGS on DVD!

Mike S.
It's unfortunate the 35mm negative for Manhandled couldn't have been licensed and used for such a release (which seemingly makes no sense considering the deal KINO has with Paramount), especially since Stage Struck looks impeccable in comparison. The question should've been: if not now, when? The prints could've been compared and elements used from both if necessary for the best quality restoration possible. A shame. But as has been said, at least we have something.
Last edited by Keatonesque on Mon May 07, 2018 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by buskeat » Mon May 07, 2018 3:02 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, maybe I'm spoiled because I have seen nearly everything Gagman mentioned in theaters.

But I LOVE being surprised by titles like this rather than seeing them checking off what I expect to see.

This Kino series of Paramount films has just been marvelous, and that's why I try to feature them on NitrateVille Radio and review them in Old Movies on HD whenever I can. Buy them to keep them coming, and encourage the titles you want to see, but don't complain.
My only complaint is these releases are coming so fast and furiously I haven't had time to watch them all yet!

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Jim Roots » Tue May 08, 2018 5:25 am

buskeat wrote:
Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, maybe I'm spoiled because I have seen nearly everything Gagman mentioned in theaters.

But I LOVE being surprised by titles like this rather than seeing them checking off what I expect to see.

This Kino series of Paramount films has just been marvelous, and that's why I try to feature them on NitrateVille Radio and review them in Old Movies on HD whenever I can. Buy them to keep them coming, and encourage the titles you want to see, but don't complain.
My only complaint is these releases are coming so fast and furiously I haven't had time to watch them all yet!
I've lost a bit of weight myself. Unfortunately, it was in my wallet.

Jim

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Lonesome Luke » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:20 pm

What's happening with the remaining W.C. Fields film So's Your Old Man (1926)? (They must of forgot that one; what other explanation could there be?) :?

Image

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Danny Burk » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 pm

Unless they've been cleared up, I'm pretty sure that there are rights problems with that one. Similar to YOU'RE TELLING ME! in the past, but they were finally resolved for that version.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by radiotelefonia » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:16 pm

mwalls wrote:Manhandled is now available for pre-order.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Manhandle ... 77426/?e=1

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Battra92 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:12 pm

Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(
No offense dude but can you ever be happy about any release?

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Harlett O'Dowd » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:20 pm

Battra92 wrote:
Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(
No offense dude but can you ever be happy about any release?
No. No he can't.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by LouieD » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:52 pm

Battra92 wrote:
Gagman 66 wrote::? Huh? YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN??? How's that? This one came completely out of nowhere. I was hoping for some of the Pola Negri titles, especially THE SPANISH DANCER, and Lubitsch's FORBIDDEN PARADISE. Oh by the way, KID BOOTS was recently restored in 4K just last year. One might think that would be a sure bet. However, they haven't even put out an ultimate edition of IT yet with both the William Perry and Carl Davis scores. Any word yet on when OLD IRONSIDES will be ready? Does Criterion still have the rights to THE WEDDING MARCH? I mean THE LAST COMMAND apparently is now licensed to Kino? So what about UNDERWORLD and THE DOCKS OF NEW YORK? Rather confusing..... :( On the downside, Universal now under new management, seems to have canceled it's plans to restore 14 of the studios Silents after only a few projects were completed. That's disappointing. :(
No offense dude but can you ever be happy about any release?
+1

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by vitaphone » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:02 pm

Amen Louie D. That guy whines and bitches about everything. And, no, Universal is NOT under new management and NO they have not cancelled any of those restorations.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Thad Komorowski » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:38 pm

Instead of dog-piling with the whining about whining, maybe just state the obvious. Are any of the other studios releasing newly scanned and restored silents in high-def with any kind of regularity? No. That's why Kino has to license them and do it themselves. While it can be frustrating to not get our very favorites immediately, I mean, c'mon.

Oh, speaking of. OLD IRONSIDES will be out in October.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:22 pm

It seems like it has really been a somewhat slow year for silent film releases by distributors. Still no announcements from Flicker Alley – looks like their planned titles may not get released until next year. After everything last year, it's surprising how little has come out, with a handful of exceptions earlier in the year like the two Swansons and Fields. Hopefully, the end of the year will make up for a disappointing summer.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by boblipton » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:30 pm

On the other hand, it has been a very good year for the quirky little minors: Undercrank, Ed Lorusso, Fritzi, advances on getting Tommy Joe Stathes' cartoon collection out, lots of stuff from Thunderbean.... all the bizarre stuff that old film geeks like me who have seen all the standard stuff hunger to see: something new. Universal is moving slowly ahead with getting silents out.... and if they seem maddeningly slow, think how magnificent King of Jazz turned out to be.

The fact is that few of these projects are commercially viable for the billion-dollar corporations, so we need to be be happy for the glass being as much as half full, and think of ways to encourage others to keep filling it. Complaining don't get get it done, pilgrim. Why not try a positive attitude instead?

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:29 pm

boblipton wrote:On the other hand, it has been a very good year for the quirky little minors: Undercrank, Ed Lorusso, Fritzi, advances on getting Tommy Joe Stathes' cartoon collection out, lots of stuff from Thunderbean.... all the bizarre stuff that old film geeks like me who have seen all the standard stuff hunger to see: something new. Universal is moving slowly ahead with getting silents out.... and if they seem maddeningly slow, think how magnificent King of Jazz turned out to be.

The fact is that few of these projects are commercially viable for the billion-dollar corporations, so we need to be be happy for the glass being as much as half full, and think of ways to encourage others to keep filling it. Complaining don't get get it done, pilgrim. Why not try a positive attitude instead?

Bob

The above is true, and for those buffs, it's a welcome change. I'm not at all fond of King of Jazz, but at least it's out there, and they did seem to do a marvelous job with that. That being said, with all due respect, I don't just nod my head like an automaton in blind approval. Don't conflate friendly criticism or meager disappointment (with output) with whining or complaining (which some here are guilty of). Of course silents are not commercially viable for these corporations like MGM or Paramount sitting on a treasure trove that collects dust. However, I'm aware the copyrights will expire within a few years on all silents, which will be a godsend for any company out there with the means to not only do proper restorations of top quality, but to release these films as well. That does not mean one cannot hope for the wealthy interests to make more of an effort than just crumbs for the poor silent film fans. If anything, I am thinking more about those up there in age that have been waiting so long to live to see those dozens of silents to get proper releases. In any case, any releases are welcome, and that is positive enough for me.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Thad Komorowski » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:06 pm

Keatonesque's thoughts are my own. Complaints about Kino's release schedule are merely annoying. So where's the vitriol for the studios that aren't putting films out and won't license them to people that will?

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by silentfilm » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am

Did you miss this? Granted, The Garden of Eden (1928) was released on DVD 15 years ago, but it has been out of print for years and sellers were asking outrageous prices for used copies of it.

Also, remember that David Shepard was a big part of Flicker Alley, and he is not around to continue working on restorations from the Blackhawk Films collection any more.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:01 pm

Flicker Alley has also released, or is about to, The Ancient Law.

It also looks like Kino Lorber is licensing Paramount sound titles from Universal, which could lead to lots of things. That at least is what people assume from the announcement of Desert Fury with Burt Lancaster (though it could be independently owned for all I know).
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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Battra92 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:43 pm

Has it been a slow year? I feel like my backlog is crazy at the moment with lots of great stuff to watch.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by AbZeroNow » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:34 pm

I enjoyed Kino's release of The Covered Wagon so I can't complain much about what they've done this year.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Keatonesque » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:30 pm

It's a positive thing to see THE COVERED WAGON, THE ANCIENT LAW, YOU NEVER KNOW WOMEN, KING OF JAZZ, and a few others get released, like the Swansons (even though the print used for MANHANDLED was not the best possible option, but alas). It just feels like a slow year for silents, I suppose. Obviously there are more costs involved as opposed to the cult horror or forgotten deep cut oddities that get released in droves nowadays by labels. I admit I may be thinking in terms of big name silent titles, stars, and directors. For example, regarding Universal, there is unfortunate news regarding the possibility of KINO getting to release the 4K restoration of THE MAN WHO LAUGHS:
We asked for The Man Who Laughs which we had released in our old Universal deal, but didn't get it.
It's best to wait out the last years of these copyrights until they expire rather than moan or bicker. One can only sigh and be a wishful thinker. The next decade may be a golden one for silent restorations and releases in higher quantity and (ideally) quality.

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Re: Kino to release blu-rays/DVDs of some Paramount silents

Unread post by Paul Penna » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:21 pm

Keatonesque wrote:It's best to wait out the last years of these copyrights until they expire rather than moan or bicker. One can only sigh and be a wishful thinker. The next decade may be a golden one for silent restorations and releases in higher quantity and (ideally) quality.
Going out of copyright is one thing, but there remains the problem of getting the prime film elements necessary for those high-qualty, much less “ideal,” restorations Studios aren't going to be letting loose their archival holdings to any and all for peanuts just because the films are out of copyright.

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