'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

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Mr.Mycroft
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'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Mr.Mycroft » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:04 pm

Well, here we go again. A prelim published schedule for TCM's October screenings includes Lilac Time. To date, this has always been pulled within weeks of the airing.I'm just assuming it will simply not air again but, here's hopin!

It can be found here:

http://www.tcm.com/schedule/monthly.htm ... 2018-10-01" target="_blank

24 Wednesday
6:00 AM
Lilac Time ( 1928)
A young French girl falls in love with an English flight pilot during World War I.
Dir: George Fitzmaurice Cast: Colleen Moore , Gary Cooper , Burr McIntosh .
BW- 0 mins,

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by mwalls » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:59 am

This is not the first time that "Lilac Time" has been put on the schedule, only to be pulled. Now, perhaps this is real and it will be played. I would be very excited about that. But, suppose it is pulled again. Does anyone understand the logic of putting this film on the playlist and then to pull it? My thought is that if they were looking to place a film as a placeholder in a space; surely there would be much easier grabs than to put up "Lilac Time." It would seem that "Lilac Time" would be out of sight and out of mind unless something was afoot. Does anyone know the rhyme or reason?

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Matthew

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:08 pm

0 minutes of Lilac Time is exactly what we'll get.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by boblipton » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:21 pm

Why don't we wait for bad news to be disappointed? The disappointment will be so much greater, and that's what we want, isn't it?

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by vitaphone » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:48 pm

Touche, Bob.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by mwalls » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:41 pm

mwalls wrote:This is not the first time that "Lilac Time" has been put on the schedule, only to be pulled. Now, perhaps this is real and it will be played. I would be very excited about that. But, suppose it is pulled again. Does anyone understand the logic of putting this film on the playlist and then to pull it? My thought is that if they were looking to place a film as a placeholder in a space; surely there would be much easier grabs than to put up "Lilac Time." It would seem that "Lilac Time" would be out of sight and out of mind unless something was afoot. Does anyone know the rhyme or reason?

Thanks,
Matthew
It was not my intention to be down on TCM and hopefully the post was not seen as such. My question was genuinely why "Lilac Time" would have been put on the schedule before and again (having been pulled before at least once). It is restored but missing a score. The people at TCM are quite smart and manage the schedule expertly. I was just wondering if anyone had any idea why a film such as "Lilac Time" would be listed in the first place? It is not the first film to come to mind if a placeholder is to be used.

Matthew

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by boblipton » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:52 pm

None of us know, but given that t has been scheduled for October, it is somewhat more likely to show up in October than, say, two weeks from today minus a few hours, which seems to be featuring Audrey Totter, who is not in Lilac Time. So keep a good thought.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by smokey15 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:59 pm

I remember when TCM pulled "Lilac Time" off the schedule just a week or so before airing without any explanation.
I was surprised to see it on the schedule again. I won't hold my breath but I sure hope this time around they'll air it.
If they are truly intent on airing it then why did they schedule it at 6am? This film is deserving of a primetime airing. If it's shown it will be a TCM premiere.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by CoffeeDan » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:56 pm

Some random thoughts:

1. Considering that LILAC TIME is thematically scheduled within a block of WWI aviation films, I think it's that much less likely to get pulled from the schedule. Then again, it starts off that block of films, so it might be the easiest to remove.

2. The real test is the running time of the film. A film that hasn't been shown on TCM before usually starts out with a 0m running time when it's put on the schedule, and the actual running time is added later. I'd say if you don't see a revised running time by, say, the end of August, you're probably looking at a schedule change in the near future.

3. Someone here (Ben Model? Richard Finegan? Ron Hutchinson?) said that while we don't have all the Vitaphone discs for LILAC TIME, a cue sheet exists, and a score could be put together from that. Not ideal, but better than nothing, and a cobbled-together piano score (for example) might do for a 6:00 am airing.

4. Back in the '70s, LILAC TIME was available for non-theatrical screenings thru the old UA16 catalog ($75/night). However, it was a mute print, lacking a score. Could the airing of a mute print be an option? Yes, I know this flies in the face of TCM's policy that every silent film showing has a score, but you never know . . .

5. If any of these options were possibilities, I think we would have heard about them by now. So, I guess, in the end I hope LILAC TIME can be aired on TCM at the time promised, but I'm not holding my breath . . .

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Big Silent Fan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:30 am

Well...a watchable copy of the 94 minute film is available to watch on YouTube, with an organ score made for the epic film. I watched today and couldn't help compare it to "Wings" because of the large production and combat-in-the-sky scenes. The organ music includes lots of appropriate sound effects including the noise of the plane engines. Picture quality is satisfactory with a surprise ending that is unforgettable.

Good enough that I won't need to watch again if TCM ever does broadcast it.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Big Silent Fan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:34 pm

Actually, both "The Big Parade" and "Wings" come to mind watching the story since it ends with a French girl searching for a wounded airman after the big aerial battle.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by pathe16mm » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:37 pm

Someone at TCM is reading these posts and chuckling with glee.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by mwalls » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:28 am

It looks like Lilac Time has disappeared from the schedule.

Matthew

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Frame Rate » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:33 pm

And so, LILAC TIME falls from the sky and crashes once again.

(sigh)

Not that I really want to begin a new "attack" thread against our beloved (but too often misguided) TCM, but as most of us know all too well, fresh video transfers from that substantial stash of never-shown-on-TV silent titles they already own (and which still exist) virtually ground to a sad halt several years ago -- with the Sunday Night Silents time slot nowadays almost always re-cycling the very same titles most of us have already viewed multiple times, as well as VHS'd, DVD'd DVR'd and/or purchased (with artwork and keepcases!) from Warner/Kino/Milestone/F.Alley, etc.

But... here goes:

Come on, TCM!

Enough with all the Bus Tours, Ocean Cruises, warhorse-favorite film festivals, shiny new hosts, cord-cutting streaming options, revved-up computer graphics and gallons and gallons of over-priced wine!

It's way past time to revive what made you such an exciting source of cinema discoveries in the first place.

Start showing us a regular stream of all those wonderfully rare silents that, at present, only turn up at places like MOMA, UCLA, Cinecon and Capitolfest. After all, 35mm projection prints (or DCP files) obviously already exist of those features!

And it can't be budget-busting for you to do just basic, no-frills video transfers (at least of the titles whose rights are clear) and pay union scale for some of our favorite organists and pianists to improvise accompaniments.

Enough is enough... with all those Silent Sunday Night repeats!!!

Come on, TCM. :x
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by s.w.a.c. » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:28 am

Frame Rate wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:33 pm
Come on, TCM!

Enough with all the Bus Tours, Ocean Cruises, warhorse-favorite film festivals, shiny new hosts, cord-cutting streaming options, revved-up computer graphics and gallons and gallons of over-priced wine!
Don't forget their current video signal (in my market, anyway) that now requires me to hit the zoom button to watch Academy-ratio titles, which is the bulk of their programming. Just realized another downside of this is when they show open matte transfers, like a recent Ghosts - Italian Style showing, I can no longer zoom in to approximate its proper theatrical aspect.
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by boblipton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:54 am

And such small portions!

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by vitaphone » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:04 am

LOL Bob! Well said.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by mwalls » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:59 am

I was not intending to disparage TCM in any way. I just noted that it left the schedule. I honestly did not think that they would actually show it given it has not score at this point.

For the other activities mentioned like the wine, cruise, etc., I would assume they all are profitable. At the end of the day, TCM is a business that needs to show a profit or it will be doomed. And what a depressing day that would be. I get a lot out of TCM because even though I have seen my share of classic films, there are many that I have not; or have not seen in a long time and have forgotten much about them. I watch a lot of movies from TCM every month.

So, while I did not expect them to actually show it, the fact that they put it on the schedule again makes me very curious. Kind of like the name of a movie you can't think of that sticks with you until you finally figure it out. For a placeholder in that time slot they could easily place a John Wayne or Jack Lemmon movie. Reaching for Lilac Time is in my opinion an act that takes extra effort, and it just does not add up. Might they be gauging the overall message board activity that a certain title generates? In the end I don't see it being shown due to how much it would cost them for likely one or just a few airings. Financially it just would not make sense to spend that kind of money on a limited audience. But it does make me curious why they would actually list what to many is a rather obscure title in the first place.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Big Silent Fan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:31 am

mwalls wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:59 am
Financially it just would not make sense to spend that kind of money on a limited audience. But it does make me curious why they would actually list what to many is a rather obscure title in the first place.

Matthew
I assume, as they did in the past with other films including "The White Sister," TCM might sponsor a 'Young composer's contest' as they did for "The White Sister." Of course they could do this without listing the 'not ready for primetime' film in their schedule.
Many of those young composer films have been terrific.
As another option, there's always the organ score accompanying the film on YouTube. It was scored for the film, so there should be information available on that score.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:43 am

Well, as Ed Lorusso points out on the new podcast, they'll license public domain stuff that's professionally produced with scores-- sometimes. So get on that!
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by CoffeeDan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:36 am

Big Silent Fan wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:30 am
Well...a watchable copy of the 94 minute film is available to watch on YouTube, with an organ score made for the epic film. I watched today and couldn't help compare it to "Wings" because of the large production and combat-in-the-sky scenes. The organ music includes lots of appropriate sound effects including the noise of the plane engines. Picture quality is satisfactory with a surprise ending that is unforgettable.

Good enough that I won't need to watch again if TCM ever does broadcast it.
This copy of LILAC TIME has now disappeared, too, courtesy of Time Warner. Ah, the thrill of the chase!

Still, I wonder why TCM keeps scheduling and pulling this film when everybody involved knows it's in no condition to be shown by TCM standards.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Frame Rate » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:39 pm

CoffeeDan wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:36 am
Still, I wonder why TCM keeps scheduling and pulling this film when everybody involved knows it's in no condition to be shown by TCM standards.
Well, Turner is a large corporation (read: bureaucracy), and perhaps there are simply too many left hands that often don't know what the right hands (or vice versa) are doing (or have knowledge of).

Or even have the responsibility, or authority, to fix a problem when it crops up.

Think of all the times their schedule has listed an alternate title for the one that the host mentions in the introduction (or that the promotional announcements have been touting.)

And then there are the even bigger scheduling errors when a completely different film (but with the same title) gets either promoted or actually shown.

Perhaps there is a master TCM database which lists, in one category, all the WB/FN/MGM silents which are fully ready for showing -- and in another category, all the silents to which Turner DOES own the rights but are NOT fully ready for showing.

And some lowly, data-entry nebbish, years ago, simply listed LILAC TIME in the wrong column.

But so far, nobody has made a successful effort to correct the data error.
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by s.w.a.c. » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:48 am

Mike Gebert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:43 am
Well, as Ed Lorusso points out on the new podcast, they'll license public domain stuff that's professionally produced with scores-- sometimes. So get on that!
Lessee...what film would go well with a wax paper & comb score?
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Danny Burk » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:19 am

s.w.a.c. wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:48 am
Mike Gebert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:43 am
Well, as Ed Lorusso points out on the new podcast, they'll license public domain stuff that's professionally produced with scores-- sometimes. So get on that!
Lessee...what film would go well with a wax paper & comb score?
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by mwalls » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:32 am

The one underlying problem, at least where Lilac Time is concerned, is that it is not public domain. However, does not Time Warner, who owns TCM, own the rights to Lilac Time? That would make life easier, assuming TCM would even entertain such a venture.

Previously when they ran the Young Composer contest they had full control over the selection/content. Plus, there was a $10,000 prize. Their idea of a score may be measured in dollars and cents and lots of it.

But, even beyond that, it would be a daunting task to ask people to contribute to a Kickstarter to fund a score where the ultimate "prize" is a showing of a film on TCM from time to time. I doubt enough people would contribute if they are not going to hold a DVD in their hand at the end. In Ed's case, it is a professional DVD/Case that shows up for plunking down $25.

So, while it is a great goal, there would be many obstacles.

It might be easier for us all to just head to Rome, NY in December to watch Lilac Time in the grand old Capital Theater for their anniversary celebration. :-)

Matthew

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Frame Rate » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:52 am

I can understand if Ed doesn't want to reveal (in this forum) precisely what TCM paid for the rights to his restoration work, and the same goes for Ben's compensation from TCM.

But the question remains:

Does it cost more for TCM to acquire new, ready-for-showing, silents via this (outsider-provider) route than to simply dig into their own collection (of still un-televised silents that they already own), do a no-frills video transfer, and hire a capable, silent accompanist to improvise a score?

If so, is that why TCM has essentially stopped premiering titles from Warner's official stash -- but is still open to licensing silent-feature titles from elsewhere?
If only our opinions were as variable as the pre-talkie cranking speed...

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Does it cost more for TCM to acquire new, ready-for-showing, silents via this (outsider-provider) route than to simply dig into their own collection (of still un-televised silents that they already own), do a no-frills video transfer, and hire a capable, silent accompanist to improvise a score?
It looks that way, yes. Primarily because they won't just let somebody noodle a score like the showing at your local Elks Club. I suspect it's like this:

"We own this, we should score this and show it."
"Well, if we do we should do it right."
"What would right cost?"
"X thousand."
"Do we have the budget? Would we make that back?"
"No, so let's not do it now."
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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by vitaphone » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:01 pm

100% correct Mike. I know they have no budget for scoring, nor does Warner Archive. Like it or not, that is reality. And you are correct they will not do a quick and dirty job.

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by Frame Rate » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Now hold on thar, pardners!

The fine musicians who have provided piano and organ accompaniments, over many years, at Cinecon, Cinefest, Cinesation, Capitolfest etc. are by no means "noodlers" from the local Elks Club!

And as for Warner Archive's allegedly high standards in their current catalog of silents, let's be realistic. Some of those video transfers are mighty soft, decades-old, analog work, done on obviously un-restored source material and with quite a hodge-podge of music scores, ranging from superb, custom orchestral backings to mediocre needle-droppings and single-keyboard stylings of highly varying degrees of musicality.

Why just last night TCM ran (for the UMPTEENTH TIME, no less) THE CONQUERING POWER, accompanied by only a single piano.

If management has the ready cash to license (from Fox) and premiere not one, but three Ritz Brothers pictures, all on a single night -- as TCM did, just before yesterday's silent slot, there's no valid excuse for management's continuing, and shameful, neglect of their back catalog of long-unseen silents. :twisted:
If only our opinions were as variable as the pre-talkie cranking speed...

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Re: 'Lilac Time' TCM Wed Oct 24th 6am EST

Unread post by vitaphone » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:53 pm

Oy.

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