cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino....

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Darren Nemeth
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cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino....

Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:00 pm

About 20 years ago I ordered some silent film cue sheets from the Jesse Crawford Organ Society and have always wanted a way to distribute them on the net for free.

My scanner died a long time ago and my old PC will not be able to handle a new one. I thought of selling Xeroxes on eBay but am already too occupied with other things to spend time on that.

A week ago, along came Don Mahurin, who after reading a post I made here, offered to scan them. Thanks to him they are finally available to everyone FOR FREE!

Here are 300dpi .pdf scans of all of the cue sheet Xeroxes I sent.

College (1927) starring Buster Keaton. 2.9 megabites
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cu ... Keaton.pdf

Hunchback of Notre Dame (1923) starring Lon Chaney 8.2 megabites
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cu ... chback.pdf

Metropolis (1927) 4.6 megabites
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cu ... opolis.pdf

The Sheik (1921) Rudolph Valentino 2.4 megabites
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cu ... /Sheik.pdf


Also, the Organ Society sent me this two page sheet. I don't know if this is film related or not, but here it is.

"What Are You Waiting For, Mary?" - Fox Trot Song by Walter Donaldson 2.2 megabites
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cu ... s/Mary.pdf

This below is the newsletter the Jesse Crawford Organ Society enclosed with all of the sheet music. There are a few historical articles regarding theatre organs in it. 8 megabites
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cu ... hePoet.pdf

Enjoy!!
Last edited by Darren Nemeth on Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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greta de groat
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Unread post by greta de groat » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:28 pm

Do you have a web page from which these are linked? That would be a handier place to bookmark than each individual piece. Could provide a little historical information too--if someone who didn't know about cue sheet stumbled on these with no explanation they'd have no clue what they had.

greta
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Darren Nemeth
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Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:32 pm

greta de groat wrote:Do you have a web page from which these are linked? That would be a handier place to bookmark than each individual piece. Could provide a little historical information too--if someone who didn't know about cue sheet stumbled on these with no explanation they'd have no clue what they had.

greta
Download them, print them out or bookmark this folder
http://giant-squid-audio-lab.com/hip/cue_sheets/

Anyone who wants to make a website explaining cue sheets is more than welcome to use these scans. They are intended to be free for anyone to use how they want. :D

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greta de groat
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Unread post by greta de groat » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:19 am

Thanks, i bookmarked your folder. Thanks for sharing, these are a lot of fun

greta
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Darren Nemeth
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Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:15 am

greta de groat wrote:Thanks, i bookmarked your folder. Thanks for sharing, these are a lot of fun

greta
There is no telling how long they will be on my webspace. You may be better off saving them to your computer.

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Penfold
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Unread post by Penfold » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:07 am

Excuse my ignorance here; are these genuine 1920's cue-sheets reissued by The Jesse Crawford Organ Society, or cue sheets compiled in the more recent past???
I could use some digital restoration myself...

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Rodney
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Unread post by Rodney » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:02 am

Penfold wrote:Excuse my ignorance here; are these genuine 1920's cue-sheets reissued by The Jesse Crawford Organ Society, or cue sheets compiled in the more recent past???
I've downloaded the Keaton cue sheet for COLLEGE, anyway, and it's a historic cue sheet with a rubber stamp on it from the Jesse Crawford society. Note that if you look at the music for the opening number, called "College Boys," it's actually lifted from the Italian song Funiculi, Funicula; which would be a bit of a poser for modern audiences. Is Keaton's character supposed to be Italian?

And one of the film's two main theme songs (at cues 4, 8, 12, 26, 34) is "Freshie..." a piece that was actually published as the theme for Harold Lloyd's THE FRESHMAN that same year, so audience who might reasonably have been expected to find the two films similar anyway would have even heard the same theme song!
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Darren Nemeth
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Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:22 am

Penfold wrote:Excuse my ignorance here; are these genuine 1920's cue-sheets reissued by The Jesse Crawford Organ Society, or cue sheets compiled in the more recent past???
Reprinted around 1988 by the Society.

It turns out the Hunchback cue is from the rerelease.

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Penfold
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Unread post by Penfold » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:59 pm

Thanks Darren.
I could use some digital restoration myself...

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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Michael Mortilla » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:45 am

Darren Nemeth wrote: Enjoy!!
Thanks for that Darren! I'm sure this is of interest to beth members and accompanists who use these tools in their work.
Michael Mortilla

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Rodney
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Rodney » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:22 pm

Michael Mortilla wrote:
Darren Nemeth wrote: Enjoy!!
Thanks for that Darren! I'm sure this is of interest to beth members and accompanists who use these tools in their work.
I was surprised at first that THE SHEIK had some 1925 cues in it, and then realized it was not THE SHEIK (1921) but SON OF THE SHIEK, which of course is the later film. I do like the plea at the end to use the tie-in foxtrots "The Shiek of Araby" and "That Night in Araby." While those are fun foxtrots, and I might consider using such a thing as an overture, I'd find it awfully campy to use in the actual score. But tastes change...
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:34 pm

Rodney wrote:
Michael Mortilla wrote:
Darren Nemeth wrote: Enjoy!!
Thanks for that Darren! I'm sure this is of interest to beth members and accompanists who use these tools in their work.
I was surprised at first that THE SHEIK had some 1925 cues in it, and then realized it was not THE SHEIK (1921) but SON OF THE SHIEK, which of course is the later film. I do like the plea at the end to use the tie-in foxtrots "The Shiek of Araby" and "That Night in Araby." While those are fun foxtrots, and I might consider using such a thing as an overture, I'd find it awfully campy to use in the actual score. But tastes change...
You are right. Its SON OF THE SHEIK!

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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Michael Mortilla » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:32 am

Rodney wrote: I do like the plea at the end to use the tie-in foxtrots "The Shiek of Araby" and "That Night in Araby." While those are fun foxtrots, and I might consider using such a thing as an overture, I'd find it awfully campy to use in the actual score. But tastes change...
Well Rodney, you have hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned with the use of cue sheets. Some people treat them as sacrosanct when in fact, they probably came from someone only familiar with popular music and some classics. A far cry from composing effective scores for a film.

While these folks may be considered the first 'music supervisors' they are akin to the barber dentists of the Old West. Sure, they can pull a tooth and then give you a shave, but chances are neither is going to be done particularly well.

For my own part, I would NEVER use a cue sheet. When you see 8 seconds of melody and an indication that there you need to cover 4 or 5 minutes of music with it, you're basically composing anyway, so just cut out the middle man (who didn't really know much of what he was doing in the first place) and score the damn thing?

I know there are some accompanists who use cue sheets effectively, but they are few and far between and are generally very good improvisors (READ instantaneous composers). Then again, maybe we care more about the music than the average viewer...
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Rodney
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Rodney » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:39 pm

Michael Mortilla wrote:
Rodney wrote:

For my own part, I would NEVER use a cue sheet. When you see 8 seconds of melody and an indication that there you need to cover 4 or 5 minutes of music with it, you're basically composing anyway, so just cut out the middle man (who didn't really know much of what he was doing in the first place) and score the damn thing?\
Well, to be fair, the idea was that having looked at that eight seconds of music on the cue sheet, you would go to your library and find the complete piece and use that, or find something else that (based on a comparison with those eight seconds) is close in tone and use that. Or write to the Cameo Music Service Corporation (see the last page of these cue sheets) and order the complete piece, if the eight bars convince you that it's worth owning both for this film and the future. Since silent film musicians didn't see the end of the era in 1928 coming, they thought that acquiring good pieces for their libraries would pay off over their whole career.

I have many times found nice pieces on cue sheets, and knowing the titles, I can go to archives and order copies of them. And often I end up using them in some other scene or some other film anyway!

The other way that cue sheets were useful in the original days was in circumstances (which apparently were pretty common) that you didn't have any opportunity to actually see the film before opening night. The prints were scheduled pretty tightly, and I remember a memoir of an English accompanist who remembered that opening night often started late because the bicycle courier bringing the print from the previous theater was hung up in traffic. So, if you have the cue sheet, you can lay out a score for your small orchestra without ever seeing the film, and then you've got something to work with on opening night.
Rodney Sauer
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Michael Mortilla » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:40 pm

Rodney wrote:
Well, to be fair, the idea was that having looked at that eight seconds of music on the cue sheet, you would go to your library and find the complete piece and use that.
I get that part, of course. THe part I DON'T get is that the films usually (always?) have many ups and downs and twists and turns in plot and scene that just plastering a piece of music "as is" seems a great disservice, especially in our 'enlightened" age of filmmaking and music for cinema. Certainly in their day, these documents were of great value and remain important historical records. As for their current value in scoring/accompanying, I think they are not as useful.

Of course, if the director shot the movie to match the music precisely, that would be another matter. I don't think many of them did.

Whatever. I still applaud the links and appreciate those who provide historical reenactments of the silent cinema with these documents. It just ain't my cup 'o tea. :)[/i]
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Rodney » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:06 pm

Michael Mortilla wrote:
Rodney wrote:
Well, to be fair, the idea was that having looked at that eight seconds of music on the cue sheet, you would go to your library and find the complete piece and use that.
I get that part, of course. THe part I DON'T get is that the films usually (always?) have many ups and downs and twists and turns in plot and scene that just plastering a piece of music "as is" seems a great disservice, especially in our 'enlightened" age of filmmaking and music for cinema. Certainly in their day, these documents were of great value and remain important historical records. As for their current value in scoring/accompanying, I think they are not as useful.

Of course, if the director shot the movie to match the music precisely, that would be another matter. I don't think many of them did.

Whatever. I still applaud the links and appreciate those who provide historical reenactments of the silent cinema with these documents. It just ain't my cup 'o tea. :)[/i]
I agree that cue sheets don't always work, and the musicians whose memoirs I've read indicate that almost no one admitted to actually using them -- therefore, oddly enough, sticking to the cue sheet is not even historically accurate!

But when it comes to taking a piece of music as is and plastering it on a sequence, I'll admit to liking a different cup of Darjeeling -- that's Mont Alto's bread and butter, and it works remarkably (perhaps surprisingly) well, in my opinion, almost anywhere I've tried it. There are so many scenes where all you have to do is play a piece that supports the basic emotion, and the fact that the viewer is watching the movie gives it all the push it needs to fit the action. Some pieces help out by having mood changes at the right place, and often we insert some repeats or put in some cuts to get them to line up better, but a pretty effective film score can be made with very little modification of the pieces -- again, in my humble opinion.
Rodney Sauer
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Michael Mortilla » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:43 pm

Rodney wrote: -- again, in my humble opinion.
And clearly you are successful in that pursuit! Thanks for the info, Rodney.
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:32 pm

A request earlier today for one of these cue sheets resulted in my looking for them!

The originals have been misplaced due to my moving several times since the original post but the PDF files were found on an old hard drive.

And now nearly a decade later all can be downloaded from archive.org!

The Son Of The Sheik (1926) [my original post said The Sheik but it was in error]
https://archive.org/details/Sheik" target="_blank

Metropolis
https://archive.org/details/Metropolis_cue_sheet" target="_blank

College (1927)
https://archive.org/details/College1927" target="_blank

Hunchback of Notre Dame
https://archive.org/details/Hunchback_cue" target="_blank
Last edited by Darren Nemeth on Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Feufollet » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:47 pm

Marvelous! Bravo!

I notice the statement "Proper rest period is Nos. 16 to 25 inclusive" on the final page of College. Any idea what that means? Could it really be what it looks like--"Any time within this period, the accompanist is allowed to take a break"?

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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Rodney » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:04 pm

Feufollet wrote:Marvelous! Bravo!

I notice the statement "Proper rest period is Nos. 16 to 25 inclusive" on the final page of College. Any idea what that means? Could it really be what it looks like--"Any time within this period, the accompanist is allowed to take a break"?
In other cue sheets I've seen, it's a place where the orchestra can rest and let the organist play, because the scenes "aren't that important." (Not my value judgement, of course; cue sheets were generally made by orchestra people).

But in a small theater, if you just have one musician, she does need a break. In such a theater, you might have sections of film where there is no accompaniment, because even a pianist needs dinner. The audiences at those theaters would get used to it (or they could choose to attend a higher-class exhibition elsewhere in town). It may well be that the cue sheet compiler is taking this into account, and trying to make sure that if there's a break, it happens earlier, so that the rousing finale has music.
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Darren Nemeth » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:33 pm

The sheet for What Are You Waiting For, Mary? (1927) a Fox Trot by Walter Donaldson.
https://archive.org/details/WhatAreYouWaitingForMary" target="_blank

The "cue sheet issue" of The Poet (1989) a Jesse Crawford Theatre Organ Society news letter, a chapter of the American Theatre Organ Society.
https://archive.org/details/ThePoet_201806" target="_blank
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Re: cue sheets for download here. Keaton, Chaney, Valentino

Unread post by Jack Theakston » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:03 pm

Rodney wrote: In other cue sheets I've seen, it's a place where the orchestra can rest and let the organist play, because the scenes "aren't that important." (Not my value judgement, of course; cue sheets were generally made by orchestra people).
I think you nailed it in the first point, as this applies to orchestras more than the for-hire, small-town pianist, as most orchestras had a union clause that they got 15 minutes for every hour, and guess about how many minutes Nos. 16-25 come out to be? That said, most orchestras found breaks around features from what I can tell, and I can't see a theater that late in the game doing anything other than substituting the orchestra with a relief organist at that point—Gaylord Carter also describes this practice in one interview from the 1970s.

And to answer a question about ten years too late, "Funiculi, Funicula" was known as "A Merry Life for Me" in the US during that time, which was a popular frat tune.
J. Theakston
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