Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

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goalieboy82
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Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by goalieboy82 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:01 pm

call it a wild guess
if you look at the criterion front page and see there hints in 2015 movies they will release, you see soldiers marching (from Napoleon's time). does this mean we finally get a dvd release of the film. i hope so. i think it will be coming out on tuesday, july 14th 2015 (bastille day)
http://www.criterion.com/current/posts/ ... y-new-year" target="_blank" target="_blank

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Rollo Treadway
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Rollo Treadway » Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:16 pm

I would love for your guess to be correct, but my own wild hunch is that those soldiers imply the 1964 film Culloden.

And I see Harold Lloyd is in an awful hurry. Girl Shy?

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CoffeeDan
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by CoffeeDan » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:25 am

Rollo Treadway wrote:And I see Harold Lloyd is in an awful hurry. Girl Shy?
I think it's SPEEDY . . . right now I'm just watching out for Criterion.com's 50% off flash sale, sometime in February. Got a whole list of films I want to get, plus I have a $50 gift certificate to spend . . .

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Kevin2 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:31 am

Looks like The Passion of Joan of Arc may be released this year as well.

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by countryslicker » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:02 pm

The Coppola version of "Napoleon" was commercially released on DVD in 2003 (at least here in Australia). My DVD cover slick shows 226 minutes and Region 4 PAL - Universal Studios/Studio Canal. Apparently this version was never released in the USA.
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precode
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by precode » Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:52 am

Unless Coppola finally decides to stop being a dick, the proper five-hours-plus Brownlow restoration with Carl Davis' score will likely never be released here. They apparently had to jump through miles of hoops just to get approval for the Oakland screening two years ago.

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Roscoe
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Roscoe » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:16 am

I've seen a lot of speculation about that cartoon -- the soldiers seem to be marching toward a group of men holding knives. Folks have suggested BARRY LYNDON (unlikely, it already has a splendid, if largely supplement free, Blu-Ray), and I thought it was THE DUELLISTS briefly.

CULLODEN makes a good deal of sense.

That odd bunch of lines next to the woman dressed in knives (DRESSED TO KILL, get it?) seems to be intended to suggest a pyre of some kind, and it might be good news for a Blu-Ray of PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC.

SPEEDY, well, whatever. I wish they'd pry THE CROWD and GREED from the cold dead hands of Warner Brothers and give them the releases they deserve.
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Michael O'Regan » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:56 pm

It gave me a little thrill to see the words "pyre" and " Blu-Ray of PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC" in the same sentence.

:wink:

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Little Caesar » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:16 pm

I don't think that the Harold Lloyd clue is referring to "Speedy" because I don't recall Lloyd being pursued on foot in that film (it has been a few years since I have seen the movie, so perhaps I'm mistaken). I do recall Lloyd being pursued on foot though in "Why Worry," "For Heaven's Sake," and "Professor Beware." Since Carl Davis is premiering his new score for "Why Worry" at this year's TCM Film Festival, I tend to think that "Why Worry" is being referenced here. I'm not necessarily ruling out "Professor Beware" though since Suzanne Lloyd did confirm that Criterion was working on a set for the Harold Lloyd talkies (Granted, Universal owns "Professor Beware," but Criterion has been able to license quite a few films from Universal in the past).
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:40 pm

I think it's representing the idea of the title of Speedy, more than any specific scene.

I don't know what to think about the Napoleonic soldiers. Culloden has had a DVD release with The War Game, and that seems more like Eclipse material (which would not be blu-ray); Watkins is not that well known any more and Criterion hasn't licensed BBC material before, have they? If it could be Culloden just based on that drawing, it could also be Bondarchuk's War and Peace or Les Grandes Manoevres or who knows what.
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:01 pm

It might mean Raymond Bernard's Les Miserables is getting an upgrade from Criterion's SD Eclipse edition. But most of the soldiers have tri-cornered hats, which puts them out of the historical time frame of Les Miserables, but in the time of Napoleon.

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Rob Farr
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Rob Farr » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:19 am

It could also mean Abel Gance's Austerlitz or Sacha Guitry's Napoleon. Let's hope not.
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by WaverBoy » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:54 pm

precode wrote:Unless Coppola finally decides to stop being a dick, the proper five-hours-plus Brownlow restoration with Carl Davis' score will likely never be released here. They apparently had to jump through miles of hoops just to get approval for the Oakland screening two years ago.

Mike S.
Very sad if this version never makes it to video; I've never seen this film, and have been waiting, as I'd rather not watch the Coppola-shortened cut if I can avoid it, and I wasn't able to make it to Oakland for the screening.

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by seaquest » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:21 pm

Just seeing the words "Napoleon 2015 release" left me out of breath..... For one glorious second I thought that perhaps an announcement had been made! I'm rather depressed now to see that I see it's only an illusory hint..... Still though, it's good to keep hoping and talking about it. If enough of us want it and continually fight for it, perhaps some day it'll get the release it deserves!

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:30 pm

Okay, I may have just stumbled on a Napoleon DVD release at a very reasonable price. Maybe this is known to be available, but the last I heard the only Napoleon on DVD was from Australia, I think.

It's on German Amazon, and it's in a five-film DVD set from Studio Canal, admittedly one of the films is A Trip to the Moon, but still, $24 Euros for a set that includes Pabst's Der Schatz (not available in the US) and sure seems, despite the complete lack of details, to have a version of Napoleon on it:

http://www.amazon.de/Stummfilmklassiker ... -Georges-M" target="_blank" target="_blankéliès/dp/B00B9XSRBQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422498420&sr=8-1

This page suggests that the label has the rights to the US/Carmine Coppola version, so no doubt that's which one it is. Which I know is not preferred by most, but still, it's Napoleon, or a version anyway:

http://www.arthaus.de/napoleon-arthaus_premium" target="_blank" target="_blank
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Rollo Treadway » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:51 pm

I have the R2 (Spanish) 2-disc release of the Coppola version, with a stated running time of 225 minutes. This Arthaus edition seems to be the same, though the amazon.de site says 222 min. — I'm sure there's no actual difference, as the running times aren't always given correctly, or may be deliberately "rounded off".

The covers of the Spanish and German editions are quite similar as well, based on the theatrical poster for the 1980s Coppola presentation.

But, yes ... We want the Brownlow!

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siriami
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by siriami » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:31 am

There is also a 2012 German 2 DVD release of the same film (Coppola version, unfortunately). Similar packaging and a running time of 222m.
http://www.amazon.de/Napoleon-Restaurie ... s=napoleon" target="_blank

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Rob Farr
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Rob Farr » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:26 am

Why no love for the Coppola version? I know it's "shorter", but other than a few snips and bits, much of the added length of the most recent version is due to a slower projection speed. And I think Carmine Coppola's score is wonderful! And don't forget, the "Coppola" version IS the Brownlow version, unless the skinny dude that introduced it in Telluride and Radio City Music Hall was an imposter. It may not have every last scrap of footage in it, but it was viewed and blessed by Abel Gance himself and that's good enough for me. But YMMV.
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Mike Gebert
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:18 am

I know, I couldn't deal with the argument last night, but somewhere here there's a link to Brownlow's article in which he explains how they brought it down with Gance's approval to a 4-hour length that was feasible in a concert hall, the only major change being removing one subplot involving a minor character; the rest of it was achieved by sticking to a 24 fps running time.

This is a film that could be as long as you like-- like Mark Twain's description of a paleontologist, the brontosaurus he built was so big, and if he had found more bones it'd be twice as big. There's no final or definitive version toward which everything aims. The "Coppola" version, which is as Rob says Brownlow's version (Brownlow B?), is a fine work of reconstruction and not to be sneered at; if we ever get the other, I doubt it will be that different. More likely it'll be like Metropolis, where the completest extant version is interesting, but the best version is a bit shorter than that.
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:35 am

In my opinion the issue never was the superiority or inferiority of either version, but the fact that Coppola decided on his own that his was the only official version, and that any screening of the other reconstruction was an invasion of his property rights, like he made the film. I would gladly pay $50.00 if Criterion would release both together. But if such a release were under consideration it would be up to Mr. Coppola, and I'm afraid that's not going to happen.

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:45 am

Well, I don't know of any other distributor who, having bought the rights to something for a territory, would then allow the distributor for another territory to put on shows in his territory, which is basically what this comes down to as a business matter. I hope this can be resolved like you say, but it's far from unique or incomprehensible, is my point.
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:58 am

The Murnau Stiftung never filed suit to keep the Moroder version of Metropolis from being screened or released.

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Big Silent Fan » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:10 am

Mike Gebert wrote:I know, I couldn't deal with the argument last night, but somewhere here there's a link to Brownlow's article in which he explains how they brought it down with Gance's approval to a 4-hour length that was feasible in a concert hall, the only major change being removing one subplot involving a minor character; the rest of it was achieved by sticking to a 24 fps running time.
Since I've owned "Napoleon" on VHS long before anyone was collecting DVDs and have also read Kevin Brownlow's book "Napoleon," detailing both the making of the film and it's reconstruction by Brownlow, perhaps I can help those interested to see how this all came about.

From Page 236: "Napoleon" where Brownlow discusses the American Version of the film shown at Radio City Music Hall.
Kevin Brownlow wrote:

"Bob Harris telephoned, asking me to suggest cuts for the American version. 'We are going to have to cut it down to 3 1/2 hours,' he said, 'or the theatres won't accept it.' It was particularly important to shorten it for Radio City, he said, otherwise they would run past midnight, and they would have to pay Golden Time to all the stagehands and musicians--a mere $15,000. Realizing that the full version would still be available, I agreed to produce a version which more or less matched that shown at the premiere at the Opera. David Francis was shocked that having put the picture together, I was now being asked to dismantle it again, but when he spoke to Bob Harris he, too, realized that it would have to be done. In the end, Harris balked at so fierce a reduction, and settled for a version of four hours. He said he would run it at 24fps and thus save a great deal of time. The Violine sequences were the first to go--Gance professed to dislike those scenes anyway - together with eight minutes from Toulon (This had the odd effect of making a long sequence seem longer.) brief moments like Napoleon brooding in the grotto at Casone, and mingling with his family at Ajaccio, were also dropped. It was a pity, but rather a shorter and swifter 'Napoleon' shown to the public than risk the full version sitting on the shelf, as in London."
This is a film that could be as long as you like-- .

Thanks to my DVD recorder/player speed selection (wonderful for silent film but useless for anything else), I'm able to view my four hour Coppolia version at .8 speed, returning it to a much closer, if not perfect running speed. Doing so increased the viewing time from 240 minutes to 289 minutes, or just under five hours.

In my opinion, scenes are much more compelling at this speed and the music handles the reduction much better than spoken words ever could. Nowhere does the film appear to be running slow and often still seems a bit fast which in the case of the snowball fight, was probably Gance's intention.
Last edited by Big Silent Fan on Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by siriami » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:26 am

Having seen the full-length (5 hour) version when it was screened at the Edinburgh Film Festival way back in the 1980's, I fell in love with Carl Davis' magnificent score for the film. The Coppola score pales in comparison (IMHO).
And I love Kevin Brownlow's book about the film. I sent him a fan letter when it was published, and he kindly sent me a "Napoleon" postcard thanking me.
I was lucky to meet Mr Brownlow last year at a local silent film festival and he signed my "Napoleon" book which I had taken with me!
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Ann Harding
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Ann Harding » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:43 am

I am afraid this conversation will soon be history. I was this morning at a conference with the new restorer of Napoleon together with F.F. Coppola at the Cinémathèque française. We were told that all previous restorations are going to be blown away by what the CF is doing. They are going to reconstruct a 6h30 version which is supposed to follow closely the so-called Apollo version. And Coppola was there to give his blessings. He intends to show this new CF version with -of course!- a score made with various pieces from his father Carmine, a patch-up job he will endeavour to do himself.
Basically, we were told that everything Kevin Brownlow has ever done was all wrong. And Carl Davis's score - which Coppola stated he never heard - will be also history.
And BTW the CF intends to make a DVD of this version.
Last edited by Ann Harding on Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mike Gebert
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:51 am

Funny how under any other circumstances that would be great news— new longer cut, freshly restored, someday to be available on video!— but there's a lot of personal feeling invested in this one, I guess.
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir

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Ann Harding
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Ann Harding » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:05 am

You are right, Mike. Gance's Napoleon is unlike any other film. It stirs a whirlwind of passions in everybody involved with it.

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by 35MM » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:39 am

There's some info here:

http://www.cinematheque.fr/fr/dans-sall ... 17613.html" target="_blank

Google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 17613.html" target="_blank
CURSES!

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Penfold
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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Penfold » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:08 pm

Big Silent Fan wrote:
Mike Gebert wrote:I know, I couldn't deal with the argument last night, but somewhere here there's a link to Brownlow's article in which he explains how they brought it down with Gance's approval to a 4-hour length that was feasible in a concert hall, the only major change being removing one subplot involving a minor character; the rest of it was achieved by sticking to a 24 fps running time.
Since I've owned "Napoleon" on VHS long before anyone was collecting DVDs and have also read Kevin Brownlow's book "Napoleon," detailing both the making of the film and it's reconstruction by Brownlow, perhaps I can help those interested to see how this all came about.

From Page 236: "Napoleon" where Brownlow discusses the American Version of the film shown at Radio City Music Hall.
Kevin Brownlow wrote:

"Bob Harris telephoned, asking me to suggest cuts for the American version. 'We are going to have to cut it down to 3 1/2 hours,' he said, 'or the theatres won't accept it.' It was particularly important to shorten it for Radio City, he said, otherwise they would run past midnight, and they would have to pay Golden Time to all the stagehands and musicians--a mere $15,000. Realizing that the full version would still be available, I agreed to produce a version which more or less matched that shown at the premiere at the Opera. David Francis was shocked that having put the picture together, I was now being asked to dismantle it again, but when he spoke to Bob Harris he, too, realized that it would have to be done. In the end, Harris balked at so fierce a reduction, and settled for a version of four hours. He said he would run it at 24fps and thus save a great deal of time. The Violine sequences were the first to go--Gance professed to dislike those scenes anyway - together with eight minutes from Toulon (This had the odd effect of making a long sequence seem longer.) brief moments like Napoleon brooding in the grotto at Casone, and mingling with his family at Ajaccio, were also dropped. It was a pity, but rather a shorter and swifter 'Napoleon' shown to the public than risk the full version sitting on the shelf, as in London."
This is a film that could be as long as you like-- .

Thanks to my DVD recorder/player speed selection (wonderful for silent film but useless for anything else), I'm able to view my four hour Coppolia version at .8 speed, returning it to a much closer, if not perfect running speed. Doing so increased the viewing time from 240 minutes to 289 minutes, or just under five hours.

In my opinion, scenes are much more compelling at this speed and the music handles the reduction much better than spoken words ever could. Nowhere does the film appear to be running slow and often still seems a bit fast which in the case of the snowball fight, was probably Gance's intention.
Remembering that this was all written 30-odd years ago, BEFORE quite a lot of new material (about 20 mins worth)dealing with Napoleon in Corsica and the Convention Storm was added (back) into the European/Brownlow A/Carl Davis version about 15 years ago...... see the 2001 Postscript to the revised edition of Napoleon......
I could use some digital restoration myself...

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Re: Napoleon 2015 DVD release?

Unread post by Penfold » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:18 pm

Ann Harding wrote:I am afraid this conversation will soon be history. I was this morning at a conference with the new restorer of Napoleon together with F.F. Coppola at the Cinémathèque française. We were told that all previous restorations are going to be blown away by what the CF is doing. They are going to reconstruct a 6h30 version which is supposed to follow closely the so-called Apollo version. And Coppola was there to give his blessings. He intends to show this new CF version with -of course!- a score made with various pieces from his father Carmine, a patch-up job he will endeavour to do himself.
Basically, we were told that everything Kevin Brownlow has ever done was all wrong. And Carl Davis's score - which Coppola stated he never heard - will be also history.
And BTW the CF intends to make a DVD of this version.
If only the CF had been more.....accurate ??? honest ???......about what Napoleon material they held, for all these years.....and Is it just me, but does anyone else see CF and Coppola as an unholy alliance in this particular case ????
I could use some digital restoration myself...

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