If the Internet says so...

Open, general discussion of silent films, personalities and history.
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silentfilm
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If the Internet says so...

Unread post by silentfilm » Mon May 30, 2016 8:22 pm

Today's latest frustration, is this photo of "Lars Hanson" and Lillian Gish in this photo allegedly from THE WIND (1927).

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AllPosters.com is selling reproductions of it, and you would think that a stock photo site would have the correct identification of this photo.

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Art.com has the same alleged photo of Lars and Lillian.

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Another stock photo place, Almay also identified this photo as THE WIND, but they don't claim that Lars Hansen is in the photo.

But this photo is really of Ralph Forbes and Lillian in her next film, THE ENEMY (1928). Lillian has a nearly identical photo in her book "Dorothy and Lillian Gish". Presumably, she would know what film is it from...

And since a stock photo library has misidentified it, it is also all over Pintrest https://www.pinterest.com/pin/203717583114671963/. Ivan Shreve even has it misidentified on his blog post. Doesn't anybody do any research any more?

I got in an argument with a lady on Facebook yesterday, because she posted the photo and said that she loved Lars and Lillian on a Silent Film group there. She was very upset when I pointed out that this was really from THE ENEMY. She said she did some research, and every single copy of this photo on the internet says it is from THE WIND. Who can argue with the Internet?

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Brooksie
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Brooksie » Mon May 30, 2016 8:44 pm

I share your pain, Bruce. Try telling the internet that every flapper with a black bob isn't necessarily Louise Brooks ...

R Michael Pyle
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by R Michael Pyle » Tue May 31, 2016 12:32 am

Mark Twain again: "If you don't read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you're misinformed" - or something to that effect...

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Mitch Farish » Tue May 31, 2016 9:28 am

Check out these photos of Sybil Seely

Image

Image

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by sepiatone » Tue May 31, 2016 10:49 am

Not just the internet. I'm reading Dave Menefee's excellent book on Wallace Reid's life but there are some booboos. Poor Victory Bateman gets dissed somewhat for she is called Victor Bateman for the credits of Human Wreckage(1923) (page 259; paperback). In 1920's "Sick Abed"(page 437; paperback) she's not even named though she is the attendant in the scene with Wally. The picture just below it identifies Wallace Reid and Winifred Greenwood(though it's Bebe Daniels in the scene with Wally). The deletion of Bateman in the 'Sick Abed' movie outlines the fact that she's not given an unbilled credit at IMDb or AFI.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Rollo Treadway » Tue May 31, 2016 11:25 am

Here's one I came across earlier today on the reputable (?) image site TheRedList.com, claiming to show Harry Woods, Groucho Marx and Thelma Todd in Monkey Business. Neither Woods nor Todd are correct. So often I see similar examples where it looks like they've looked at the cast list and just try their best guess.

Image

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Frederica » Tue May 31, 2016 11:36 am

...Virginia Rappe's daily abortions...
Fred
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by bobfells » Tue May 31, 2016 11:46 am

There's an old saying, "You lie and I'll swear to it." In my case, it took me many years to swat down the factoid that British director Leslie Arliss was the son of George and Florence Arliss. Even Halliwell's Filmgoers Companion recited this info. The Arlisses had no children and Leslie was a cousin or nephew. Oddy, a photo taken in 1943 of George and Leslie correctly states their relationship
Official Biographer of Mr. Arliss

http://www.ArlissArchives.com" target="_blank
http://www.OldHollywoodinColor.com" target="_blank
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radiotelefonia
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by radiotelefonia » Tue May 31, 2016 9:14 pm

Hey... Getty Images also misidentified this picture. Lars Hanson and Lillian Gish in THE WIND.

:mrgreen:

Image

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Spiny Norman
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:45 am

Most historians who write about use of history in the cinema make references to movies that they have not seen. Some are led astray by incorrect IMDB entries, others have surprisingly not even used the IMDB when it would've helped.
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Arndt
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Arndt » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:01 am

It's not just the internet. In the rather nice tome Silent Movies. The Birth of Film and the Triumph of Movie Culture (first edition 2007), credited to Peter Kobel and the Library of Congress no less, two photos are incorrectly labeled. Page 126 shows a still from LUCKY STAR but labels it as SEVENTH HEAVEN. On page 222 Paul Biensfeldt is wrongly identified as Berhard Goetzke in a still from DER MÜDE TOD. And finally pages 228 and 229 show a photo from KAMERADSCHAFT, which is a 1931 sound film.
I wrote to the LoC and got a very brief reply. I do not know if there has been a second edition in which these errors were corrected.
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by bobfells » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:27 pm

To be fair, there are a lot of moving parts in a book, especially one that surveys film history. Errors will creep in, even with the more exacting review. I can remember when my sister gave me a Christmas present around 1968. It was a hard cover edition of Kevin Brownlow's THE PARADE'S GONE BY. I believe it was a first edition but I can check because I still have it. Anyway, the thing I remember about opening the book for the first time was a piece of paper that fell out. I picked it up off the floor and it was titled "Errata" and listed quite a number of mistakes and corrections within the volume. I mention this not to suggest that Mr. Brownlow was anything less than a superb historian and writer, but because even the brightest and the best will make errors.

I'd say the point here is not so much that everybody has an "errata" list but the people who copy off such info, act as though it's their own research and give no credit where it is owed. The benefit for the rest of us is that this exposes all the lazy people who use secondary sources but fail to acknowledge them.
Official Biographer of Mr. Arliss

http://www.ArlissArchives.com" target="_blank
http://www.OldHollywoodinColor.com" target="_blank
https://www.Facebook.com/groups/413487728766029/" target="_blank

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Michael Arlt » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:47 am

Frederica wrote:...Virginia Rappe's daily abortions...
That sounds like the name for a punk rock band, it works better than Fatty's Smutty Tintype Tangle

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Spiny Norman
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:35 pm

bobfells wrote:To be fair, there are a lot of moving parts in a book, especially one that surveys film history. Errors will creep in, even with the more exacting review. I can remember when my sister gave me a Christmas present around 1968. It was a hard cover edition of Kevin Brownlow's THE PARADE'S GONE BY. I believe it was a first edition but I can check because I still have it. Anyway, the thing I remember about opening the book for the first time was a piece of paper that fell out. I picked it up off the floor and it was titled "Errata" and listed quite a number of mistakes and corrections within the volume. I mention this not to suggest that Mr. Brownlow was anything less than a superb historian and writer, but because even the brightest and the best will make errors.

I'd say the point here is not so much that everybody has an "errata" list but the people who copy off such info, act as though it's their own research and give no credit where it is owed. The benefit for the rest of us is that this exposes all the lazy people who use secondary sources but fail to acknowledge them.
Errata are most commonly printing errors, aren't they?
It is a common problem and wikipedia sadly doesn't always help either.
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Frederica
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Frederica » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:39 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
bobfells wrote:To be fair, there are a lot of moving parts in a book, especially one that surveys film history. Errors will creep in, even with the more exacting review. I can remember when my sister gave me a Christmas present around 1968. It was a hard cover edition of Kevin Brownlow's THE PARADE'S GONE BY. I believe it was a first edition but I can check because I still have it. Anyway, the thing I remember about opening the book for the first time was a piece of paper that fell out. I picked it up off the floor and it was titled "Errata" and listed quite a number of mistakes and corrections within the volume. I mention this not to suggest that Mr. Brownlow was anything less than a superb historian and writer, but because even the brightest and the best will make errors.

I'd say the point here is not so much that everybody has an "errata" list but the people who copy off such info, act as though it's their own research and give no credit where it is owed. The benefit for the rest of us is that this exposes all the lazy people who use secondary sources but fail to acknowledge them.It is a common problem and wikipedia sadly doesn't always help either.
Errata are most commonly printing errors, aren't they?
They're for any error that has been corrected since printing.
Fred
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Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:50 pm

Brownlow's own note on errors in film history speaks more eloquently than I could...

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“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Salty Dog » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:03 am

Regarding the Groucho Marx picture above, obviously not Thelma Todd (I admit I have no idea what Harry Woods looks like), but what is the source of that picture? Who is with Groucho, what film is it from? Any suggestions? Just curious.
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Rollo Treadway » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:19 am

Salty Dog wrote:Regarding the Groucho Marx picture above, obviously not Thelma Todd (I admit I have no idea what Harry Woods looks like), but what is the source of that picture? Who is with Groucho, what film is it from? Any suggestions? Just curious.
It's a still from Monkey Business, and the two people besides Groucho are among the guests in the party sequence. Harry Woods and Thelma in this film play gangster Alky Briggs and his moll Lucille (below).

Image

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Salty Dog » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:35 pm

Rollo Treadway wrote:It's a still from Monkey Business, and the two people besides Groucho are among the guests in the party sequence. Harry Woods and Thelma in this film play gangster Alky Briggs and his moll Lucille (below).
Image
Thanks!
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by sepiatone » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:11 pm

this is not Victorian superstar Lydia Thompson but another famous actress of the Victorian era, can you name her? This might be a toughie as this is a film forum. (btw the name Lydia Thompson was probably made at contemporary 19th century times or archivist)

https://66.media.tumblr.com/65fcc2c7f4e ... 9e_540.jpg" target="_blank

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by sepiatone » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:28 pm

ROSALIND RUSSELL and DOROTHY DANDRIDGE......oh really!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/photo-candid-Ro ... Sw~oFXOTu3" target="_blank" target="_blank

http://www.ebay.com/itm/photo-candid-Ro ... 2110174357" target="_blank" target="_blank

It's Lena Horne/w her daughter taken with Roz Russell
Last edited by sepiatone on Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Ludi » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:59 pm

This is one of my pet peeves. My own research subject is relatively obscure, and a good deal of what has been written about him seems to be flapdoodle. I devote a webpage to stories and gossip, trying to determine when they first appeared and trying to sort truth from fiction.

http://ernestthesiger.org/Ernest_Thesig ... ossip.html" target="_blank
ernestthesiger.org

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Mae
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Mae » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:39 am

Hello all, first post! :D

Out of all the mislabeled pictures I've seen, this one bugs me the most. From Seven Chances. This one has circulated all over the internet and she is ALWAYS labeled Louise Brooks, because of the haircut.

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NO!

That's Rosalind Byrne with Buster. Do your research.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Jim Roots » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:14 pm

Mae wrote:Hello all, first post! :D

Out of all the mislabeled pictures I've seen, this one bugs me the most. From Seven Chances. This one has circulated all over the internet and she is ALWAYS labeled Louise Brooks, because of the haircut.

Image

NO!

That's Rosalind Byrne with Buster. Do your research.
We already did. There's a whole thread on this site devoted to Rosalind.

Jim

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Mae » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:48 pm

Jim Roots wrote:We already did. There's a whole thread on this site devoted to Rosalind.

Jim
Like I said, first post. How could I know? Nothing against you.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Rollo Treadway » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:19 pm

Mae wrote:Hello all, first post! :D
Welcome aboard, Mae!

Here are two threads, one starring Miss Byrne and the other one featuring her as supporting player:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19904

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20912


Also, check out Nitrateville's "Formal introductions" thread where you may present yourself and your interest in film, as well as researching what a lovely bunch of nuts we Nitratevillains *) really are.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

*) That's the official demonym.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Mae » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:34 pm

Rollo Treadway wrote:
Mae wrote:Hello all, first post! :D
Welcome aboard, Mae!

Here are two threads, one starring Miss Byrne and the other one featuring her as supporting player:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19904

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20912


Also, check out Nitrateville's "Formal introductions" thread where you may present yourself and your interest in film, as well as researching what a lovely bunch of nuts we Nitratevillains *) really are.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

*) That's the official demonym.
Thank you, Rollo! Certainly nice to see a friendly. :wink: I'll most definitely check those out.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by tthacker » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:11 pm

In the strange world of EBay, everyone seems to be a Mary Pickford. Here's a recent one of "Mary".

Image
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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by Harlowgold » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:49 pm

What's really amazing is how many ebay sellers won't correct the information when you email them details on who the photo actually is. But even major photo repro sellers websites often have whoppers of misidentified stars on their sites.

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Re: If the Internet says so...

Unread post by tthacker » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:12 am

I admit to taking advantage of misidentified Ebay listings. I recently was the only bidder on a very nice photo of Sybil Seely. In this case, the seller was going by the name a previous owner had written on the back: Sylvia Sealey.
Tom Thacker
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