Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent features

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2 Reel
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Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent features

Unread post by 2 Reel » Sat May 12, 2018 5:14 pm

List of 7,200 Lost U.S. Silent Feature Films 1912-29 (last updated 12/29/1).

https://www.loc.gov/programs/static/nat ... 122916.pdf" target="_blank" target="_blank
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by wingate » Sun May 13, 2018 2:25 am

What percentage of the total does that represent?

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by earlytalkiebuffRob » Sun May 13, 2018 2:28 am

...and does 'lost' include films known only to exist in poor or incomplete prints?

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Keatonesque » Sun May 13, 2018 3:14 am

So far as I can tell, this list includes only strictly lost films as of 2016. However, films with fragments surviving don't seem to be listed (for example, Chaney's The Miracle Man is not included). Nonetheless, these wholly lost films represent the nearly 70% or so silent films in the U.S. considered to be lost. These are where the oft-cited figure of 75% derive (although it now seems to be around 65-70% given the most recent LoC statistics of 2018, accounting for all that's been found and preserved in recent years). I'm not sure how much higher the figure would be if factoring in films mostly or partially lost but with surviving fragments or a few reels.
Last edited by Keatonesque on Mon May 14, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by westegg » Sun May 13, 2018 6:35 am

So, what are the odds even half of these are hiding in a East European root cellar? Pretty depressing, especially those from the late '20s that should have stood a better chance.

:(

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by MaryGH » Sun May 13, 2018 10:08 am

My apologies for sounding this way...but doesn't the LOC ever investigate and confirm before distributing these lists?

"The Texas Tornado" has been available on DVD for quite some time now, and a more complete print exists at BFI..."Tom's Gang" is no longer at Filmoteca Española and I have correspondence regarding that...there's a few other Tom Tyler silent film prints that do exist but not labeled as such.

Is there a way I can send corrections in to the LOC?

I am able to provide proof if required for these corrections.

OTOH I am thrilled to death "Cyclone of Range" has been found and is at Filmoteca de Catalunya in Barcelona.

Extremely excited that Gosfilmofond has "Lightning Lariats", plus a fragment of "The Avenging Rider".

Seems to be a very good day for Tom Tyler, lol.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Hamilton's Grandson » Sun May 13, 2018 10:53 am

see the loc link below for the most recent 2018 list of lost films. Read the intro to see the criteria for titles placed on this list.

https://www.loc.gov/programs/static/nat ... 012918.pdf" target="_blank
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by bobfells » Sun May 13, 2018 8:13 pm

Thanks for posting! I noticed that the three George Arliss films considered lost are not listed.One of them, DISRAELI (1921), is rumored to exist in one or more European archives but corroboration to difficult to come by. The other two, THE MAN WHO PLAYED GOD and THE RULING PASSION, both from 1922, are considered lost.
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Brock Davis » Mon May 14, 2018 7:26 am

If you go to the LOC and search those two it looks like The Man Who Played God and The Ruling Passion both exist in Russia:
Archive: Gosfilmofond of Russia (Moscow) [Rur]

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by silentfilm » Mon May 14, 2018 11:19 am

I would use the database directly, since it is updated regularly.
To provide corrections or updates, please contact Steve Leggett, [email protected]" target="_blank.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by craig2010 » Mon May 14, 2018 11:48 am

silentfilm wrote:I would use the database directly, since it is updated regularly.
To provide corrections or updates, please contact Steve Leggett, [email protected]" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank.
Yes, that is the place to send corrections/updates. As of the moment, the Lost 7200 list is more up to date than the database. There are 150 or so updates needing to go in the database but those changes are already reflected in the Lost Films list. You can always find the most current versions of everything (database, lost films list, silent film project) at this page https://www.loc.gov/programs/national-f ... -database/

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by earlytalkiebuffRob » Mon May 14, 2018 2:21 pm

And does it also include silent versions of talkies?

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by MaryGH » Mon May 14, 2018 5:36 pm

silentfilm wrote:I would use the database directly, since it is updated regularly.
To provide corrections or updates, please contact Steve Leggett, [email protected]" target="_blank" target="_blank.
Thank you so much, will send an email tomorrow.
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by sepiatone » Tue May 15, 2018 1:37 pm

Ponjola(1923), Anna Q. Nilsson's turn masquerading as a man survives in a private collection according to Michelle Vogel's 2010 book on Olive Borden who had an extra role in the film. The LOC never corrects this though I emailed. Here's the link to an excerpt from Vogel's book. Nilsson cut her long blond hair for the role and there accordingly was a big to do about it in the trades, similar to Mary Pickford cutting hers for MY BEST GIRL (1927).

https://books.google.com/books?id=aHSKS ... en&f=false" target="_blank

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by craig2010 » Tue May 15, 2018 2:15 pm

sepiatone wrote:Ponjola(1923), Anna Q. Nilsson's turn masquerading as a man survives in a private collection according to Michelle Vogel's 2010 book on Olive Borden who had an extra role in the film. The LOC never corrects this though I emailed. Here's the link to an excerpt from Vogel's book. Nilsson cut her long blond hair for the role and there accordingly was a big to do about it in the trades, similar to Mary Pickford cutting hers for MY BEST GIRL (1927).

https://books.google.com/books?id=aHSKS ... en&f=false" target="_blank" target="_blank
Sorry about that. It was in an earlier mass update upload but apparently did not catch. Will remove the title from Lost film list (that should go online Friday) and will add this info to the next big batch of updates for database which go online in a few weeks.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by mwalls » Tue May 15, 2018 7:48 pm

Hi Craig,

First, thank you to you and all who have made the database possible. I look things up from time to time and it is an amazing resource. At the top of the thread is the list of lost films. Then we have the database to look up individual titles. You said there is a batch update coming to the database and films will be removed from the list of lost films. Is it possible anywhere to see a list of the films that are being removed from the "lost list" so we can see which ones have "turned up" since the last update?

Thanks,
Matthew

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by MaryGH » Wed May 16, 2018 8:31 am

mwalls wrote:Hi Craig,

First, thank you to you and all who have made the database possible. I look things up from time to time and it is an amazing resource. At the top of the thread is the list of lost films. Then we have the database to look up individual titles. You said there is a batch update coming to the database and films will be removed from the list of lost films. Is it possible anywhere to see a list of the films that are being removed from the "lost list" so we can see which ones have "turned up" since the last update?

Thanks,
Matthew

That would certainly be helpful to me.

I was in there around January and did not see any changes for Tom's silent films. The three I mentioned above must have recently popped up.
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by craig2010 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:50 am

As mentined above, the lost films list is pretty up to date--database is a couple hundred behind. Here are films which have been located over past 18 months or so (note this list is from February 2018 so there have been a few since then). Some of these are corrections rather than finds. Most of these are reflected in Lost films list. A few are updated in DB already but many are not. Next update should correct that, We hope to make many more updates and other additions in coming months.
Adventures in the Far North (1923)
All the Brothers Were Valiant (Metro, 1923) 2 reels
Arizona Nights (R-C/FBO, 1927)
Aryan, The (Triangle, 1916)
Between Dangers (Pathe, 1927)
Black Paradise (Fox, 1926)
Bring Him In (Vitagraph, 1921)
Broadway Billy (Rayart, 1926)
Broadway Gold (Truart, 1923) 4 reels of 7
Burning Daylight (Metro, 1920)
Cabaret, The (World, 1918)
Circe the Enchantress (MGM, 1924)
Clear the Decks (Universal, 1929)
Crimson City (WB, 1928)
Dancer and the King (World, 1914) 3r of 5
Dangerous Odds (1925) 3 reels
Dark Angel (Goldwyn, 1925) r2
Desert Driven (R-C/FBO, 1923) 5 reels
Desert Outlaw (Fox, 1924)
Devil’s Claim (R-C/FBO, 1920)
Double-Fisted (Rayart, 1925)
Earth Woman (First National, 1926)
Eye of Envy (Art Dramas, 1917) 5 reels, tinted
Faith of the Strong (Selznick, 1919) 4 reels
Fighting Chance (Paramount, 1920)
Flowing Gold (First National. 1924)
Fool’s Awakening (Metro, 1924) 5 reels
Foreman of the Bar-Z Ranch
Gilded Lily (Paramount, 1921)
Greater than a Crown (Fox, 1925)
Grim Game (Paramount, 1919)
Hurricane Hal (Ermine, 1925)
Lawful Cheater(s) (1925) one reel
Life or Honor (Ivan Film, 1918) 6 reels
Lightning Lariats (R-C/FBO, 1927) 6 reels
Lucky Dan (Goldstone, 1922) 5 reels
Luring Shadows (Catholic Art, 1920)
Mailman, The (R-C/FBO, 1923) 2 reels)
Man Who Could Not Lose (Paramount, 1914) 5 reels
Man Who Played God (Distinctive, 1922) 5 reels
Marriage License (Fox, 1926)
Noose, The (Frist National, 1928)
Now We’re in the Air (Paramount, 1927). Reel does exist
Open Your Eyes (WB, 1919)
Oval Diamond (Thanhouser, 1916)
Pagan Passions (Selznick, 1924) fragment
Paid in Advance (Universal, 1919)
Pleasure Mad (Metro, 1923)
Poor Men’s Wives (Preferred. 1923) 4 reels
Public Defender (Apollo, 1917)
Pursued (1925)
Red Hot Leather (Universal, 1926) 4 reels)
Rose of the Golden West (First National, 1927)
Rouged Lips (Metro, 1923)
Ruling Passion Distinctive, 1922) 6 reels
Secrets of the Night (Universal, 1924).
Soft Shoes (Stellar, 1925)
Stolen Bride (First National, 1927)
Summer Bachelors (Fox, 1926)
Tough Guy (R-C/FBO, 1926)
Toys of Fate (Metro, 1918)
Two Lovers (Goldwyn, 1928) 7 reels of 10
Watch Your Step (Goldwyn, 1922)

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by MaryGH » Wed May 16, 2018 11:31 am

Lightning Lariats (R-C/FBO, 1927) 6 reels

So that's complete. Wow.

Thank you, Craig.

I am very hopeful that Gosfilmofond will put this title on their restoration list.

"Lightning Lariats" is not the ordinary B-western from FBO it has the "exiled prince" element (that's Frankie Darro) in it.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by mwalls » Wed May 16, 2018 1:04 pm

Craig,

Thank you very much for posting the list. I am surprised, and quite excited, with the number of films being removed from the lost list. I was not expecting the list to be that long.

Matthew

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Danny Burk » Wed May 16, 2018 1:30 pm

Great news about so many discoveries. Are most of these turning up in overseas archives, or are there some domestic "found in the barn/attic/basement" type findings too?

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by craig2010 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:04 pm

Danny Burk wrote:Great news about so many discoveries. Are most of these turning up in overseas archives, or are there some domestic "found in the barn/attic/basement" type findings too?
I think the majority of those are from overseas archives. Several European archives have done additional inventories of their their collections in recent years which turns up some. The NFPB has funded a couple of visits by researchers to overseas archives to go through collections looking for items. In a few cases, the updates come from old private lists from earlier visits. Some from collectors, And finally new collections keep coming in: a couple of those titles are I beiieve from the Al Dettlaff Collection.....

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by telical » Wed May 16, 2018 5:35 pm

Ruling Passion Distinctive (1922) 6 reels
and
The Man Who Played God (1922)

are George Arliss film. I know some here will be excited about that. :D
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Jeff Crouse » Sun May 20, 2018 2:43 am

Reel two of The Dark Angel (1925) has been found??!!! Wow. More information, please!

Jeff

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Keatonesque » Sun May 20, 2018 3:16 am

Jeff Crouse wrote:Reel two of The Dark Angel (1925) has been found??!!! Wow. More information, please!

Jeff
Though the rest is presumed lost, isn't it believed that a print may still exist in the MGM/United Artists film library?

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by moviepas » Sun May 20, 2018 3:46 am

TWO LOVERS.

This Sam Goldwyn film was one that opened a Melbourne(Australia) Theatre in the late 1920s and that theatre still exists downtown. 7 out of10(which I had heard elsewhere recently) is a start. The film was probably one of the silent features Frances Goldwyn had destroyed when she wanted the vaults cleared. She kept The Winning of Barbara Worth because Gary Cooper was in it. Sheer stupidity when there were and are lots of places she could have consigned the elements to and she would have known that.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by bobfells » Sun May 20, 2018 6:11 am

:shock:
telical wrote:Ruling Passion Distinctive (1922) 6 reels
and
The Man Who Played God (1922)

are George Arliss film. I know some here will be excited about that. :D
Yes, at least one person is excited about this - me. But in fact Arliss admirers have been growing by leaps and bounds over the past ten years. I like to think that the fact that Warners Archive continues to release Arliss films is a good sign that somebody is buying them - other than me.
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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by boblipton » Sun May 20, 2018 6:36 am

bobfells wrote::shock:
telical wrote:Ruling Passion Distinctive (1922) 6 reels
and
The Man Who Played God (1922)

are George Arliss film. I know some here will be excited about that. :D
Yes, at least one person is excited about this - me. But in fact Arliss admirers have been growing by leaps and bounds over the past ten years. I like to think that the fact that Warners Archive continues to release Arliss films is a good sign that somebody is buying them - other than me.
Despite the bitching and moaning, TCM has been a godsend.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Gagman 66 » Thu May 24, 2018 12:46 am

:shock: Besides the 7 of 10 reels to TWO LOVERS, Am I seeing things or has ROSE OF THE GOLDEN WEST (1927) turned up in it's entirety? That would have to be considered an incredible find! Why is this the first time we have heard the news? I t also appears that THE NOOSE has been discovered complete as well. Another exciting discovery. I have already previously mentioned CIRCE THE ENCHANTRESS and THE STOLEN BRIDE.

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Re: Library of Congress list of 7,200 lost U.S. Silent featu

Unread post by Smari1989 » Thu May 24, 2018 4:29 am

QUOTE:
craig2010 wrote:As mentined above, the lost films list is pretty up to date--database is a couple hundred behind. Here are films which have been located over past 18 months or so (note this list is from February 2018 so there have been a few since then). Some of these are corrections rather than finds. Most of these are reflected in Lost films list. A few are updated in DB already but many are not. Next update should correct that, We hope to make many more updates and other additions in coming months.
...
So, at least 60-something films have been located, at least partially, in the last 18 months or so? That's neat!

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