Best copyright issue ever.

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Frederica
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Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Frederica » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:59 am

Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by rudyfan » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:05 am

It is a marvelous photo.
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Danny Burk
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Danny Burk » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:52 am

I'm thinking of taking him on as my assistant...he's better than most.

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Rick Lanham
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Rick Lanham » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:18 pm

I'm going to be careful not to drop my camera, lest the sidewalk get the copyright.

Rick

JFK
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Legal Precedent

Unread post by JFK » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:36 pm

Wasn't this issue resolved 80 years ago in that lawsuit where this freelancer sued Hearst Newsreel ?

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:41 pm

If I were the manufacturer of that camera, I'd get a quitclaim from the photographer and use it for advertising. Tags just write themselves. "A baboon can take a great picture with it!"

Bob
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Frederica
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Frederica » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:55 pm

boblipton wrote:If I were the manufacturer of that camera, I'd get a quitclaim from the photographer and use it for advertising. Tags just write themselves. "A baboon can take a great picture with it!"

Bob
(GASP!) It's a macaque! And a lady macaque at that! (Sniff.) Primatism.

She has the best self-satisfied grin, though.
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
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boblipton
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:21 pm

My favorite site for discussion of such important legal issues, Lowering the Bar has an update on this question, which has been raging for three years.

http://www.loweringthebar.net/2014/08/f ... elfie.html" target="_blank

For those of you who lack the intellectual rigor to follow such a basic issue of right and wrong and whether a macaque (thanks, Fred, and has anyone ever told you that, judging by that picture of yourself you attach to each post, you look like Mary Pickford?), the not-very-imitable Kevin Hill comes down on the side of Wikimedia on the grounds that Rule 202.02(b) [[of some blather in the copyright code]] goes on to say that "Materials produced solely by nature, by plants, or by animals are not copyrightable." Emphasis added.

Bob
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Donald Binks
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Donald Binks » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:59 pm

Rule 202.02(b) [[of some blather in the copyright code]] goes on to say that "Materials produced solely by nature, by plants, or by animals are not copyrightable." Emphasis added.
All modern day pictures then must not be copyright as I am sure they are photographed by trained monkeys - probably directed by them too! :D
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Donald Binks

"So, she said: "Elly, it's no use letting Lou have the sherry glasses..."She won't appreciate them,
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Frederica
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Frederica » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:16 am

boblipton wrote: For those of you who lack the intellectual rigor to follow such a basic issue of right and wrong and whether a macaque (thanks, Fred, and has anyone ever told you that, judging by that picture of yourself you attach to each post, you look like Mary Pickford?),
That photo is of Virginia Rappe!
the not-very-imitable Kevin Hill comes down on the side of Wikimedia on the grounds that Rule 202.02(b) [[of some blather in the copyright code]] goes on to say that "Materials produced solely by nature, by plants, or by animals are not copyrightable." Emphasis added.

Bob
In this case the photo wasn't produced solely by the macaque (as talented as she is). She couldn't have done it without the guy's camera...unless she also paints self-portraits, of course, I'm not ruling that out. Still, the whole thing bids fair to being as funny as the Helen Kane suit against Fleischer/Paramount.
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
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boblipton
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:20 am

Frederica wrote:
boblipton wrote: For those of you who lack the intellectual rigor to follow such a basic issue of right and wrong and whether a macaque (thanks, Fred, and has anyone ever told you that, judging by that picture of yourself you attach to each post, you look like Mary Pickford?),
That photo is of Virginia Rappe!

So is that yes or no?

the not-very-imitable Kevin Hill comes down on the side of Wikimedia on the grounds that Rule 202.02(b) [[of some blather in the copyright code]] goes on to say that "Materials produced solely by nature, by plants, or by animals are not copyrightable." Emphasis added.

Bob
In this case the photo wasn't produced solely by the macaque (as talented as she is). She couldn't have done it without the guy's camera...unless she also paints self-portraits, of course, I'm not ruling that out. Still, the whole thing bids fair to being as funny as the Helen Kane suit against Fleischer/Paramount.[/quote]


As happens so frequently, I'm on the monkey's side.

Bob
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Frederica
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Frederica » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:59 am

boblipton wrote:
Frederica wrote:
boblipton wrote: For those of you who lack the intellectual rigor to follow such a basic issue of right and wrong and whether a macaque (thanks, Fred, and has anyone ever told you that, judging by that picture of yourself you attach to each post, you look like Mary Pickford?),
That photo is of Virginia Rappe!
So is that yes or no?
No. Virginia was much taller. :D

the not-very-imitable Kevin Hill comes down on the side of Wikimedia on the grounds that Rule 202.02(b) [[of some blather in the copyright code]] goes on to say that "Materials produced solely by nature, by plants, or by animals are not copyrightable." Emphasis added.

Bob
In this case the photo wasn't produced solely by the macaque (as talented as she is). She couldn't have done it without the guy's camera...unless she also paints self-portraits, of course, I'm not ruling that out. Still, the whole thing bids fair to being as funny as the Helen Kane suit against Fleischer/Paramount.
As happens so frequently, I'm on the monkey's side.

Bob
I don't think I have a side, I just find the whole thing funny.
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
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Rollo Treadway
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Muggs Shot

Unread post by Rollo Treadway » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:34 am

Fascinating. Could it be that this magazine cover art is really public domain also?

Image

The artist pictured on the right:
Image

barry byrne
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by barry byrne » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:48 am

" The artist pictured on the right" Photo

Looks like another unproductive day at the House Unamerican activities Committee"

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Donald Binks » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:37 pm

In Melbourne (Oz) the Zoo makes money by selling paintings to the public which have been painted by the elephants. It is quite fascinating to see the elephants engaged in their artistic endeavours, holding the brush in their trunk and selecting colours and daubing here and there...
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:27 pm

Some more insight thanks to an opinion by the Copyright Office

http://www.loweringthebar.net/2014/08/c ... onkey.html" target="_blank

Bob
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Frederica
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Frederica » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:39 pm

boblipton wrote:Some more insight thanks to an opinion by the Copyright Office

http://www.loweringthebar.net/2014/08/c ... onkey.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Bob
So apparently Zeus will not be able to copyright his holiday snaps? (Struck by lightening in 3...2...1...)
Fred
"Screw the men. I've got the horse."
Helen B. (Penny) Chenery
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Frederica
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Frederica » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:47 pm

Now here's an interesting copyright issue. Bowie and Hadfield have worked out an agreement that will keep the video up for another two years.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economis ... xplains-12

For those of you who have been living under a rock for the last year, here's the video in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9dan ... e=youtu.be

Last edited by silentfilm on Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Embedded YouTube link
Fred
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:17 pm

The monkey loses after only five years in this riveting, fast-moving legal case:

PETA promises to fight on.

http://loweringthebar.net/2016/01/monke ... attle.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

Bob
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by entredeuxguerres » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:36 pm

boblipton wrote:The monkey loses after only five years in this riveting, fast-moving legal case:

PETA promises to fight on.

Bob
The attorneys representing the estate of Giotto should petition the court, as it resembles some of the demons he depicted at the Last Judgment.

(I learn from the preceding post that I've been living under a rock; if that video is an example of what I've been "missing," I intend digging myself a little deeper.)

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:05 pm

Kevin Underhill, proprietor of the website Lowering the Bar, reports "he has been told" that the monkey has been granted leave to amend his complaint.

I suppose this is all being funded by PETA. I feel like asking people I know if they contribute to that organization and how they feel about their money being spent for this suit. However, that strikes me as likely to embarrass anyone who does. Also, people who hold strong opinions in support of this are likely to have long and ultimately logical arguments on why this is a good thing.

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by entredeuxguerres » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:47 pm

boblipton wrote:I suppose this is all being funded by PETA. I feel like asking people I know if they contribute to that organization and how they feel about their money being spent for this suit...

Bob
I strongly endorsed the tactics by some of their female members of going topless to gain support (or at least publicity) for their cause; that was 10-15 yrs ago, and let me tell you there were plenty of lookers among them.

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:57 pm

Even the august New York Times has taken a moment from such important subjects as Amy Schumer's dress style and an Internet celebrity who smooshes her face into bread to cover this weighty issue. Indeed, all the news that's fit to print!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/busin ... egion&_r=0" target="_blank

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Brent » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:44 pm

I hadn't heard of this until now but figured it out as soon as I saw PETA mentioned in the thread. Then I actually clicked on some of the links for verification. On the face of it this does all seem rather frivolous, not to mention time and money wasting, but it's been deliberately misreported (a first!) and in reality it has very, very little to do with whether a non-human owns a selfie or not. PETA's longer term goal is to establish improved, more clearly defined animal rights.

This is all actually a continuation in the numerous revolts and lengthy legal battles fought by our Victorian and Edwardian forebears, such as this: They too were derided in their day, but the result was (theoretically) minimum standards of care and treatment for animals being vivisected upon. It's obviously also part of the broader (and similarly derided) tradition of fighting for human rights and attempting to end the evils of slavery, misogyny, child abuse, homophobia, et al.
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by entredeuxguerres » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:10 pm

Brent wrote:...On the face of it this does all seem rather frivolous, not to mention time and money wasting...
It IS frivolous, and it DOES waste time and money better spent on legitimate ends, such as, for ex., closing the hundreds of puppy mills now operating legally (many of them owned, surprisingly, by Amish communities). Worse, their tactics bring into disrepute, so far as the great general ignorant & self-absorbed public is concerned, the entire animal-rights movement.

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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by Donald Binks » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:43 pm

My dog Bart (a West Highland terrier) is a person. I have found this out from him over the last 12 years or so since he came to live with me.

It is a wonder the politically correct people have not as yet tried to remove the word "animal" from the language due to its connotations.
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:02 pm

The mills of justice grind slow, but they grind for a long time. Our favorite lawsuit has just been appealed to the 9th circuit.

http://blog.legalsolutions.thomsonreute ... r=15307378" target="_blank" target="_blank

Will Naruto -- for that is the slave name that PETA has given the macaque in this case -- achieve justice? Will it go to a kangaroo court? Will it be reported on News for Budgies?

Bob
Last edited by boblipton on Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:58 pm

Here is the brief in this case:

https://www.scribd.com/document/3196493 ... ning-Brief" target="_blank

Kevin Underhill of Lowering the Bar says
Not only does @PETA argue "'Authorship' under the Copyright Act is not limited to humans" but it argues it badly.
Bob
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:57 pm

According to my source on all the burning issues, Kevin Underhill's blog Lowering the Bar, the 9th Circuit has heard the appeal. I expect some in-depth analysis soon.

Bob
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Re: Best copyright issue ever.

Unread post by boblipton » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:55 am

Although the three-judge panel will issue their decision later, PETA claims it has "a significant relationship" with Naruto, the macaque on whose behalf it is suing. Does this make them SIgnificant Others?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/267511463-story" target="_blank

Bob
Life's too short to sit on our rears watching other people's work.
— Bob Fells

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