Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

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Rufus T Dowd
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Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by Rufus T Dowd » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:43 pm

The Universal movie Sherlock Holmes and the Voice of Terror has a scene where Holmes and Watson are going to Limehouse to investigate the murder of Holmes informant Gavin. Holmes reaches for his traditional dearstalker hat when Watson says that you promised not to wear that hat. Holmes then goes for his fedora.
Was this a legal issue ? I know that the first two Rathbone and Bruce movies were done by 20th Century Fox. Or is there some other explanation?

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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by FrankFay » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:05 pm

There have been complaints that the Deerstalker is purely a traveling and country wear cap, and it would be out of place in London- even in Limehouse.
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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by greta de groat » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:34 pm

It might be a bit of a joke. Arthur Conan Doyle never mentions a deerstalker cap, though the does note Holmes wearing an "ear-flapped travelling cap". The deerstalker first appears in Sidney Paget drawings--in appropriate circumstances, i.e. not in London. He would not have wanted to appear as silly as poor Henry Baker, who upon losing his bowler was forced to go about town in a Scotch bonnet.

It was likely codified by Gillette, from whom so much Sherlockian iconography descends.

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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by FrankFay » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:44 pm

greta de groat wrote:It might be a bit of a joke. Arthur Conan Doyle never mentions a deerstalker cap, though the does note Holmes wearing an "ear-flapped travelling cap". The deerstalker first appears in Sidney Paget drawings--in appropriate circumstances, i.e. not in London. He would not have wanted to appear as silly as poor Henry Baker, who upon losing his bowler was forced to go about town in a Scotch bonnet.

It was likely codified by Gillette, from whom so much Sherlockian iconography descends.

greta
and very much codified by Frederick Dorr Steele who illustrated the stories for Collier's Magazine and based him on Gillette. Steele went for drama over sense- for THE RED THUMB MARK he pictures Holmes wearing a dressing gown while visiting a private home- and the thumb mark has grown into an entire hand print.
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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:39 pm

Funny that Watson doesn't want him wearing it in that movie-- in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, Robert Stephens' Holmes complains to Watson about "this ridiculous getup that you make me wear."
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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by Rick Lanham » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:48 pm

A writer on the TCM site says that it's because the film is set in the present-day. He says that the writers carried over many things from the stories (of course), but the hat was out of date. He gives a general source at the bottom of the page:

http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article/2 ... error.html" target="_blank

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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by Ray Faiola » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:01 am

I think I had a comment deleted because I referred to Holmes' curls in the first three Universal pictures as making him look (rhymes with moppish). Jeez, talk about super-sensitive.
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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by greta de groat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:23 am

When i was in high school, a friend and i dubbed that his "windblown look." It was a distinctive and unusual style and i'm not aware of any Sherlockian antecedent.

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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:24 am

I think I had a comment deleted because I referred to Holmes' curls in the first three Universal pictures as making him look (rhymes with moppish). Jeez, talk about super-sensitive.
Absolutely not. It must not have gone through as a post in the first place, or something like that, but none of the moderators did, or would have, removed such a comment.
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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by wich2 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:44 am

greta de groat wrote:his "windblown look." It was a distinctive and unusual style and i'm not aware of any Sherlockian antecedent.

greta
The antecedent was WILDEian! (Same church, different pew.)

And as written above, the ol' deerstalker - like the large magnifying glass, and the big curved pipe - are overused, not-very-Doylean props.

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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by greta de groat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:17 pm

It's surprising how fast these got codified. A good place to look for this is in parodies. In films, we have not only Coke Ennyday in 1916, but by 1911 we already had Mack Sennett's Sleuths. I'm sure there are earlier examples, but those are the ones that pop into my mind.

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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by boblipton » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Sherlock Holmes Baffled (1900).
Life's too short to sit on our rears watching other people's work.
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Re: Question about Shelock Holmes and the Voice of Terror

Unread post by greta de groat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:41 pm

boblipton wrote:Sherlock Holmes Baffled (1900).
But he doesn't have the deerstalker, curved pipe, inverness, and magnifying glass. He does have a dressing gown, though, but i think that's not enough that you'd be able to identify him as Sherlock Holmes or even a detective if you didn't have the title. He could just be any guy who walked in on a magical burgler.

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