Fox "Grandeur" films, a list?

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LouieD
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Fox "Grandeur" films, a list?

Unread post by LouieD » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:46 am

I am looking for a complete list of all the movies filmed in the Grandeur process. Here is what I have right now:

HAPPY DAYS (1929),
SONG O' MY HEART (1930)
THE BIG TRAIL (1930)

Are there any others?

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Harlett O'Dowd
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Re: Fox "Grandeur" films, a list?

Unread post by Harlett O'Dowd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:29 am

LouieD wrote:I am looking for a complete list of all the movies filmed in the Grandeur process. Here is what I have right now:

HAPPY DAYS (1929),
SONG O' MY HEART (1930)
THE BIG TRAIL (1930)

Are there any others?
The Bat Whispers (1930) was filmed and released in widescreen - although I'm not sure if it was Grandeur or some other process.

And does SOMH really count as, AFAIK, it was never actually released in that format?

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LouieD
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Re: Fox "Grandeur" films, a list?

Unread post by LouieD » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:34 am

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:
LouieD wrote:I am looking for a complete list of all the movies filmed in the Grandeur process. Here is what I have right now:

HAPPY DAYS (1929),
SONG O' MY HEART (1930)
THE BIG TRAIL (1930)

Are there any others?
The Bat Whispers (1930) was filmed and released in widescreen - although I'm not sure if it was Grandeur or some other process.

And does SOMH really count as, AFAIK, it was never actually released in that format?
"The Bat Whispers" was not filmed in Grandeur and YES "Song O' My Heart" does count as I am looking for all the movies FILMED in Grandeur.

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jameslayton
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Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:37 am

FOX GRANDEUR NEWS (Sept 17, 1929) short
NIAGARA FALLS (Sept 17, 1929) short
FOX MOVIETONE FOLLIES OF 1929 (Sept 17, 1929) - only parts of the film were shown in Grandeur
HAPPY DAYS (Feb 13, 1930)
HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE (March 1930) short
SONG O' MY HEART (March 1930) - never screened in Grandeur
THE BIG TRAIL (Oct 2, 1930)

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Harlett O'Dowd
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Re: Fox "Grandeur" films, a list?

Unread post by Harlett O'Dowd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:43 am

LouieD wrote: "The Bat Whispers" was not filmed in Grandeur.
which brings uip the next question - what non-Grandeur widescreen films were produced during the transitional period (1928-1931)?

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jameslayton
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Re: Fox "Grandeur" films, a list?

Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:53 am

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:which brings uip the next question - what non-Grandeur widescreen films were produced during the transitional period (1928-1931)?
MAGNACHROME (35mm 2-perf)
Oui, Oui, Marie (Universal, Sept 1930) short

MAGNAFILM (56mm)
You're in the Army Now (Paramount, 1929) short

MAGNIFILM (65mm)
The Bat Whispers (United Artists, 1930)

NATURAL VISION (63.5mm)
Campus Sweethearts (RKO, 1929) short - never shown in widescreen
Danger Lights (RKO, November 1930)
Niagara Falls (November 1930) short

REALIFE (70mm neg/35mm print)
Billy the Kid (MGM, Oct 1930)
The Great Meadow (MGM, March 1931) - never shown in widescreen

VITASCOPE (65mm)
Larry Ceballos Review (Warner Bros, July 1930) short
A Soldier's Plaything (Warner Bros, July 1930) - not released in widescreen
Kismet (Warner Bros, Oct 1930)
The Lash (Warner Bros, Dec 1930)

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LouieD
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Unread post by LouieD » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:59 am

jameslayton wrote:FOX GRANDEUR NEWS (Sept 17, 1929) short
NIAGARA FALLS (Sept 17, 1929) short
FOX MOVIETONE FOLLIES OF 1929 (Sept 17, 1929) - only parts of the film were shown in Grandeur
HAPPY DAYS (Feb 13, 1930)
HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE (March 1930) short
SONG O' MY HEART (March 1930) - never screened in Grandeur
THE BIG TRAIL (Oct 2, 1930)
Wow. Thanks James. That's service!

Now, is "The Big Trail" the only one that exisits?

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Mike Gebert
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Unread post by Mike Gebert » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:28 am

Bat Whispers has been screened in 70mm, hasn't it?
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir

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jameslayton
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Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:33 am

LouieD wrote:
jameslayton wrote:FOX GRANDEUR NEWS (Sept 17, 1929) short
NIAGARA FALLS (Sept 17, 1929) short
FOX MOVIETONE FOLLIES OF 1929 (Sept 17, 1929) - only parts of the film were shown in Grandeur
HAPPY DAYS (Feb 13, 1930)
HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE (March 1930) short
SONG O' MY HEART (March 1930) - never screened in Grandeur
THE BIG TRAIL (Oct 2, 1930)
Wow. Thanks James. That's service!

Now, is "The Big Trail" the only one that exisits?
MoMA has preserved the following in 35mm anamorphic:

GRANDEUR TEST SHOTS
FOX GRANDEUR NEWS & outtakes
One reel of HAPPY DAYS - the minstrel number
HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE
THE BIG TRAIL

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jameslayton
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Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:40 am

Mike Gebert wrote:Bat Whispers has been screened in 70mm, hasn't it?
As far as I'm aware there are only 35mm prints of THE BAT WHISPERS, as Kodak does not make 70mm black & white print film.

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LouieD
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Unread post by LouieD » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:44 am

jameslayton wrote: MoMA has preserved the following in 35mm anamorphic:

GRANDEUR TEST SHOTS
FOX GRANDEUR NEWS & outtakes
One reel of HAPPY DAYS - the minstrel number
HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE
THE BIG TRAIL
Wow! Would LOVE to see any of those!

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Mike Gebert
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Unread post by Mike Gebert » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:07 pm

Okay, but I'm pretty sure the 70mm version has been screened in some fashion (eg 35mm anamorphic printdown) because I remember reading comparisons of the two in, I think, the Village Voice and American Cinematographer or some other journal like that.

Some info here: http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/vie ... =22&t=8005
“I'm in favor of plagiarism. If we are to create a new Renaissance, the government should encourage plagiarism. When convinced that someone is a true plagiarist, we should immediately award them the Legion of Honor.” —Jean Renoir

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jameslayton
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Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:32 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, but I'm pretty sure the 70mm version has been screened in some fashion (eg 35mm anamorphic printdown) because I remember reading comparisons of the two in, I think, the Village Voice and American Cinematographer or some other journal like that.

Some info here: http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/vie ... =22&t=8005
Yeah, you're right. Milestone is the distributor for 35mm prints of the widescreen version and there have been screenings. I think these are some of the articles you are talking about:

MacQueen, Scott, “A Gathering of Bats.” American Cinematographer, September 1988, Vol. 69(9), 34-40.

Price, Michael H. and Turner, George E., “Remembering How The Bat Whispers.” American Cinematographer, March 1986, Vol. 67(3), 34-43.

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Harlett O'Dowd
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Unread post by Harlett O'Dowd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:06 pm

jameslayton wrote:
Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, but I'm pretty sure the 70mm version has been screened in some fashion (eg 35mm anamorphic printdown) because I remember reading comparisons of the two in, I think, the Village Voice and American Cinematographer or some other journal like that.

Some info here: http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/vie ... =22&t=8005
Yeah, you're right. Milestone is the distributor for 35mm prints of the widescreen version and there have been screenings. I think these are some of the articles you are talking about:
Yes, it ran in widescreen at Grauman's at Cinecon in 1992 or 3. I guess it was the 35mm print that was later released on DVD.

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Bob Birchard
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Unread post by Bob Birchard » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:29 am

jameslayton wrote:FOX GRANDEUR NEWS (Sept 17, 1929) short
NIAGARA FALLS (Sept 17, 1929) short
FOX MOVIETONE FOLLIES OF 1929 (Sept 17, 1929) - only parts of the film were shown in Grandeur
HAPPY DAYS (Feb 13, 1930)
HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE (March 1930) short
SONG O' MY HEART (March 1930) - never screened in Grandeur
THE BIG TRAIL (Oct 2, 1930)
"Billy the Kid" (M-G-M, 1930) was filmed in Grandeur as well as a standard aspect ratio version.

"The Bat Whispers" credits list the process on that picture as MAGNAFILM

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Unread post by Richard P. May » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:53 am

Coincidence: BILLY THE KID (1930) is on TCM tonight (actually Friday AM, at 1:15 Pacific time. Not Grandeur, of course, unless you have a really big TV!
Dick May

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Harlett O'Dowd
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Unread post by Harlett O'Dowd » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:57 am

Richard P. May wrote:Coincidence: BILLY THE KID (1930) is on TCM tonight (actually Friday AM, at 1:15 Pacific time. Not Grandeur, of course, unless you have a really big TV!
was it actually released in Grandeur and does a Grandeur print survive - or are we talking a scenario similar to Song O' My Heart?

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jameslayton
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Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:15 pm

BILLY THE KID was shot in 70mm using Grandeur cameras, but only released in widescreen at the time on 35mm reduction prints (non-anamorphic). When projected a wide angle lens was used to fill the enlarged wide screen. MGM renamed this 70mm neg/35mm print system Realife. The 35mm reduction prints had a different aspect ratio to Grandeur too.

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jameslayton
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Unread post by jameslayton » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:30 pm

Bob Birchard wrote:"The Bat Whispers" credits list the process on that picture as MAGNAFILM
THE BAT WHISPERS is definitely Magnifilm and not Magnafilm.

The Magnafilm tradename was used by Paramount - first for their 56mm process, then later for a rival (to Magnifilm & Vitascope) 65mm format, which never got past the testing stage.

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Jack Theakston
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Unread post by Jack Theakston » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:26 pm

Correct. Magnafilm was invented by Lorenzo Del Riccio, the same person who invented Magnascope.
J. Theakston
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Unread post by Scoundrel » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:05 pm

THE BAT WHISPERS on DVD from MILESTONE includes both the 35mm and the MAGNIFILM releases
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