The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by earlytalkiebuffRob » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:51 pm

Jim Roots wrote:
Donald Binks wrote:I thought everyone knew - the Pyramids were built by either D.W. Griffith or Cecil B. deMille!
Employing wage slaves!

Jim
or...
Last edited by silentfilm on Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Donald Binks
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Donald Binks » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:10 pm

earlytalkiebuffRob wrote:
Jim Roots wrote:
Donald Binks wrote:I thought everyone knew - the Pyramids were built by either D.W. Griffith or Cecil B. deMille!
Employing wage slaves!

Jim
or... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1vjhIKCxGA" target="_blank" target="_blank

I know I am overdue for a return visit to Blighty - now I have a very good reason to go! Can hardly wait.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by boblipton » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:52 pm

For drowning Egyptians, they look happy. Still, "You call this living?"

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by wich2 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:55 am

"What... and give up SHOW BUSINESS?"

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by silentfilm » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:46 am

Slate: How Movie Theaters, TV Networks, and Classrooms Are Changing the Way They Show Gone With the Wind
After almost 80 years, America is finally rethinking how it screens its favorite movie.
By Aisha Harris
Oct. 22, 2017, 8:00 PM

https://slate.com/arts/2017/10/how-to-s ... ville.html

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by silentfilm » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:46 am

https://www.northcoastjournal.com/humbo ... id=6705560

The General Concerns
By Marcy Burstiner

Buster Keaton rides the cowcatcher in The General

Seeing The General at Arcata High School last month totally changed how I view the Civil War. The silent film about a battle between the Confederate and Union armies premiered in 1926 and stars Buster Keaton. Last month, students from Arcata and McKinleyville high schools, in the ArMack Orchestra, performed a live score to the movie under the direction of music teacher Cassandra Moulton. Now, I didn't actually buy a Confederate flag afterward, but I did find myself cheering for the Confederate Army during the movie. And that was weird.

Ridiculous? Not as ridiculous as this: Moulton felt she needed to apologize to parents of students at the two schools for choosing the movie.

In the movie, Keaton plays a railroad conductor in the South who is in love with a girl whose father and brother enlist when the war breaks out. They expect him to as well, but the army needs him for the railroad and rejects him without telling him why. His sweetheart thinks he's just a coward. She gets kidnapped by Union spies and he goes off to rescue her. After an exciting railroad chase and lots of hysterical slapstick, he ends up saving her and the Confederate Army. The boys in gray demolish the Union army in battle. And we can't help but cheer.

I took my 12-year-old daughter to see it. She's at the age where she has to be dragged out of the house so you can imagine how thrilled she was at the prospect of seeing a black and white movie with no sound! But she loved it. The musicians were excellent.

It was weird to cheer for the Confederate Army at the end. But it was a movie. For 67 minutes the Union soldiers were bad. Then the movie was over and I remembered, oh yeah, this was a war fought over slavery and the Union Army was on the side of emancipation. The movie didn't brainwash me. It mostly went over my daughter's head because she knows zip about the Civil War. They don't teach it in California schools until eighth grade.

But enough parents complained — about the movie, not about the total lack of education about the Civil War in elementary school — that Moulton felt compelled to send out a letter of apology.

"It was not my intent in choosing the film to promote any celebration of the Confederate cause past, present or future," she wrote. "Furthermore, I take full responsibility for the selection of the film and for choosing to perform the rented score."

She admitted that she had not viewed the film before purchasing it and became concerned when she and her students viewed it for the first time. But by that time, it was too late to get another movie and score to master, and it also would have been financially difficult to do so, regardless. She made her choice based on a description of the film as a "beautiful, inventive, locomotive chase set in the Civil War." It had not occurred to her that in the movie, the South would win.

Should she have done more research prior to buying it? Maybe. But this is high school, not grade school. The American Film Institute, a national organization dedicated to preserving films and educating filmmakers, ranks The General No. 18 on the list of greatest American movies of all time and as second best silent movie. (Only Charlie Chaplin's City Lights ranks higher.)

In this paper in 2010, Bob Doran wrote: "Any student of silent movies knows The General. Buster Keaton's highly refined slapstick tale of a runaway Civil War train is a classic of early cinema." That was when local musician Greg Moore screened The General against his original score performed by a six-piece band at the Arcata Playhouse. The performances sold out.

I am so grateful to Moulton for screening The General. My daughter has an appreciation now for silent movies. As for the storyline, we had a discussion about it afterward but it went over her head. As far as she was concerned, the good guys were the good guys and the bad guys were the bad guys. It was just a funny movie about a guy trying to rescue his sweetheart.

I don't need my daughter's teachers to prescreen books or movies deemed classics. I fear that a small group of parents could keep thought-provoking material out of schools by giving teachers a hard time for the choices they make.

What was needed at the screening of The General was a discussion before or after the movie to put the storyline into context. Keaton based it on a true story — the Confederate Army did win that battle the movie portrays.

With so little funding and support of arts education around the country, particularly in rural areas, we should be grateful we have programs like the ArMack Orchestra and teachers like Moulton who believe in students enough to give them sophisticated projects. When Greg Moore screened The General in 2010, he performed the score with some of the most accomplished musicians in the county, telling Doran, "It's a complicated thing. There's a lot of music to learn and it all needs to line up with the action of the film."

Moulton wrote in her apology letter that once the academic year begins it is almost impossible to change the busy school calendar, which left her with the choice of sticking with the screening or canceling the event. "I decided to push ahead with the film," she wrote. "It was the wrong decision and I now realize that I should have consulted my administrative team for guidance in this decision, and will do so should I have any reservations in the future."

No. You made the right decision, Ms. Moulton. There was no sex or racial stereotypes in this movie. There was one troubling concept — that for the purpose of a movie plot, Confederate soldiers were the good guys. It was a simplistic movie representation of the most complicated part of our nation's history. Instead of nixing the screening, the school could have used it for all kinds of teaching opportunities in social studies classes.

This was the second time I've seen a silent movie accompanied by the ArMack Orchestra. I can't wait to see what they do next year.

Marcy Burstiner teaches journalism and mass communication at Humboldt State University. She's pretty sure that if she had Ms. Moulton as her clarinet teacher back at Walt Whitman Junior High in Yonkers she wouldn't have quit eighth grade band.

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:52 pm

Nuance. An art forgotten by some but not quite dead yet! :)
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by goalieboy82 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:13 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
2 Reel wrote:Isn't that how we view The Sphinx and the Great Pyramids, all of which were built largely by slave labor?
Were they? Isn't that a myth?
no it was built by Ancient Astronaut

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Lamar » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:51 pm

The Sundance Channel is running "Gone With the Wind" all day long on Thanksgiving
http://www.sundance.tv/films/gone-with-the-wind

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Rick Lanham » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:30 pm

Lamar wrote:The Sundance Channel is running "Gone With the Wind" all day long on Thanksgiving
http://www.sundance.tv/films/gone-with-the-wind
I guess the line "I'll never be hungry again." will fit in nicely.
“The past is never dead. It's not even past” - Faulkner.

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Nosferatu » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:18 pm

We should on this logic ban all current film and stop any future films from being made since some time in the future all things will be offensive.

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Nosferatu wrote:We should on this logic ban all current film and stop any future films from being made since some time in the future all things will be offensive.
For feck sake, before jumping to such conclusions, just read this thread in which people managed to bring intelligent and nuanced points.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Nosferatu » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:50 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
Nosferatu wrote:We should on this logic ban all current film and stop any future films from being made since some time in the future all things will be offensive.
For feck sake, before jumping to such conclusions, just read this thread in which people managed to bring intelligent and nuanced points.
Sorry to disagree with you but I think it would be better if the whole world killed itself right now. It's the only way to end any more people from getting their feelings hurt.

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Donald Binks » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:37 pm

Personally, I think it a lot simpler that if you don't like what is being sent out to you - just merely turn the knob to the "off" position.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:19 pm

Nosferatu wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
Nosferatu wrote:We should on this logic ban all current film and stop any future films from being made since some time in the future all things will be offensive.
For feck sake, before jumping to such conclusions, just read this thread in which people managed to bring intelligent and nuanced points.
Sorry to disagree with you but I think it would be better if the whole world killed itself right now. It's the only way to end any more people from getting their feelings hurt.
I agree on the first part - valiant efforts are underway - but not on the reason. First of all, GWTW has not fallen victim to anything, it's not endangered, so that whole "our culture is under attack" atmosphere is highly suspicious. As several people have pointed out, you can find it anywhere you want. Birth of a Nation is still being shown too.

Secondly, again it was already said, but it's not as if there are no current issues that it could be seen to relate to. That's why I find the outcry rather tendentious. Are you trying to say people shouldn't make such a big deal of racism and discrimination? I hope not, because those things are not as dead as they should be.
I'll definitely change my position when the film is actually threatened though.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by silentfilm » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:19 pm

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... _fave.html

“Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” Is Your Latest Problematic Fave
By Christina Cauterucci
For generations, ever since the story was written as a poem in 1939 and popularized as a song a decade later, Rudolph’s lesson was interpreted more simply: Don’t make fun of people who are different, because everyone has something to offer. But around the time that the internet became the place for people to revisit problematic themes of old artworks, and for parents to fret about how they were raising their kids, Santa and his crew came in for a long-overdue reckoning.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:33 am

silentfilm wrote:http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... _fave.html

“Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” Is Your Latest Problematic Fave
By Christina Cauterucci
For generations, ever since the story was written as a poem in 1939 and popularized as a song a decade later, Rudolph’s lesson was interpreted more simply: Don’t make fun of people who are different, because everyone has something to offer. But around the time that the internet became the place for people to revisit problematic themes of old artworks, and for parents to fret about how they were raising their kids, Santa and his crew came in for a long-overdue reckoning.
Actually, this has always struck me too. Santa doesn't give a $h!t and only finally steps in when he needs something for himself. Then again, christmas (and easter) traditions don't make much sense anyway.
Doesn't have a lot to do with GWTW though.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Jim Roots » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:30 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
silentfilm wrote:http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... _fave.html

“Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” Is Your Latest Problematic Fave
By Christina Cauterucci
For generations, ever since the story was written as a poem in 1939 and popularized as a song a decade later, Rudolph’s lesson was interpreted more simply: Don’t make fun of people who are different, because everyone has something to offer. But around the time that the internet became the place for people to revisit problematic themes of old artworks, and for parents to fret about how they were raising their kids, Santa and his crew came in for a long-overdue reckoning.
Actually, this has always struck me too. Santa doesn't give a $h!t and only finally steps in when he needs something for himself. Then again, christmas (and easter) traditions don't make much sense anyway.
Doesn't have a lot to do with GWTW though.
The Santa Clause XII: Gone With the Wind. Coming all too soon to a theatre all too near you.

Jim

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by boblipton » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:57 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
silentfilm wrote:http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... _fave.html

“Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” Is Your Latest Problematic Fave
By Christina Cauterucci
For generations, ever since the story was written as a poem in 1939 and popularized as a song a decade later, Rudolph’s lesson was interpreted more simply: Don’t make fun of people who are different, because everyone has something to offer. But around the time that the internet became the place for people to revisit problematic themes of old artworks, and for parents to fret about how they were raising their kids, Santa and his crew came in for a long-overdue reckoning.
Actually, this has always struck me too. Santa doesn't give a $h!t and only finally steps in when he needs something for himself. Then again, christmas (and easter) traditions don't make much sense anyway.
Doesn't have a lot to do with GWTW though.
This is true about a lot cartoons : not the Disney one based on the Anderson story, but, say, the “Blue Danube” section of A Corny Concerto ( off the top of my head),where the swans hate the little mallard until he rescues them from the buzzard.

Bob
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by The Blackbird » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:15 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
silentfilm wrote:http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... _fave.html

“Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” Is Your Latest Problematic Fave
By Christina Cauterucci
For generations, ever since the story was written as a poem in 1939 and popularized as a song a decade later, Rudolph’s lesson was interpreted more simply: Don’t make fun of people who are different, because everyone has something to offer. But around the time that the internet became the place for people to revisit problematic themes of old artworks, and for parents to fret about how they were raising their kids, Santa and his crew came in for a long-overdue reckoning.
Actually, this has always struck me too. Santa doesn't give a $h!t and only finally steps in when he needs something for himself. Then again, christmas (and easter) traditions don't make much sense anyway.
Doesn't have a lot to do with GWTW though.
What I always got was the message that the important lessons are (a) if you are different from others, you can eventually find a place in society so long as you are possessed of a freakish superpower, and (b) acceptance from a pack of snobbish, prejudiced jerks is something you should be aspiring to. Oh, and also, even if you are grief-stricken over the apparent death of your friend after he's taken the Bumble over a cliff with him, remember the important thing is to get the women back to camp.

Meanwhile, in the sister production SANTA CLAUS IS COMIN' TO TOWN, always be delighted by a strange man who comes into the town square and invites children to come sit on his lap.

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by silentfilm » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:27 pm

Here's an opinion piece from CNN's anchor Carol Costello. It only briefly touches on It's a Wonderful Life, despite the headline.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/20/opinions/ ... index.html

First of all, most women in the 1940s got married by the time that they were 25. After the soldiers came back from WW II, job opportunities dried up for women except for those that were traditionally theirs before, like school teachers, nurses and librarians.

I think that the film is trying to make the point that there was nobody who was a suitable husband for Mary except George Baily. If he never existed, then she didn't have a happy life either.

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:00 pm

So glad we're not overanalysing anything. :)
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:12 am

;)

Oh! I got another one!

Image

Childrens book in the "little golden books" series about the tiniest dog in the world, loved by everyone who works in the circus. Once this tiny tiny dog starts to grow and is no longer abnormally small, his "friends" say, you're no longer one of us, so adios Peewee and the tiny horse you rode in on.
Only when he's become a huge mastodont of a giant dog, then he's allowed back in.

Moral: Freaks and abnormal people and goths are just as vain and intolerant as the rest of us; only they're on the other side of the fence.

;)
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by R Michael Pyle » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:14 am

Spiny Norman wrote:;)

Oh! I got another one!

Image

Childrens book in the "little golden books" series about the tiniest dog in the world, loved by everyone who works in the circus. Once this tiny tiny dog starts to grow and is no longer abnormally small, his "friends" say, you're no longer one of us, so adios Peewee and the tiny horse you rode in on.
Only when he's become a huge mastodont of a giant dog, then he's allowed back in.

Moral: Freaks and abnormal people and goths are just as vain and intolerant as the rest of us; only they're on the other side of the fence.

;)
Have you seen the new film "The Greatest Showman"?

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by wich2 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:57 am

Spiny Norman wrote:Then again, christmas (and easter) traditions don't make much sense anyway.
Right.

That's why they've had so little (?!) resonance over time.

-Craig

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:24 pm

wich2 wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:Then again, christmas (and easter) traditions don't make much sense anyway.
Right.

That's why they've had so little (?!) resonance over time.

-Craig
Newsflash for you, these holidays haven't always been celebrated the way that they are now.


But you're welcome to explain exactly the logic behind combining christian festivals with pagan elements and just pure nonsense like bunnies delivering eggs, reindeer, trees, presents, and elves.
It all looks like random incoherent ingredients to me; but go ahead, I'm happy to learn.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by wich2 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:00 pm

I could note that just about anything in human culture has come about by way of some accretion and combination.

But that isn't the point.

Which is, that mutual respect for varying beliefs, and unbeliefs, is good. And that attacks on those things - especially, wholly gratuitous ones - are bad.

-Craig

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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:25 pm

Okay, we're getting into unpleasantness over things people feel deeply here... that are not old movies. I ask everyone to take a breath and step back a little. This thread seems to be bringing out a lot of crankiness on other topics, and if it can't stay civil and relevant, it may get shut down.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Spiny Norman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:26 pm

Mike Gebert wrote:Okay, we're getting into unpleasantness over things people feel deeply here... that are not old movies. I ask everyone to take a breath and step back a little. This thread seems to be bringing out a lot of crankiness on other topics, and if it can't stay civil and relevant, it may get shut down.
With respect, are we?
One particular person, a whole month after I posted something, is now making it out as an attack on christmas, which is not at all what I said.

And self-appointed "defenders of christmas" have sometimes included rather controversial people, so one should be careful before joining their ranks.
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Re: The Dam Bursts: War Officially Declared on Classic Film

Unread post by Mike Gebert » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:43 pm

But you're welcome to explain exactly the logic behind combining christian festivals with pagan elements and just pure nonsense like bunnies delivering eggs, reindeer, trees, presents, and elves.
It all looks like random incoherent ingredients to me; but go ahead, I'm happy to learn.
That seems like it's getting awfully close to baiting to me. I don't get the logic behind that. Isn't there something else we can talk about? The whole thread, from the start, has seemed to want to get into political grievance stuff. Go get a Twitter account for that. This site is a respite from all that, for sharing love of movies.

I think this thread has served its purpose, whatever that was.
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